Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Palestinian suicide attacks


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was no consensus. Snoutwood (talk) 06:21, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

List of Palestinian suicide attacks
The article is nothing more than a list of lists. It could also be construed as being POV. It sets out "criteria used for these lists", which erroneously suggests some sort of universal acceptance of the definitions used therein. Martin 02:09, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Oppose. This is Strong Keep. This is very important because it was added to Arab Israeli conflict template for example . Instead of having to link to 3 different lists which will seem more POV if anything. It's important to have different lists because of the huge number of events, but it's also important to have this disambiguation page . I can't begin to understand how it could be construed as being POV. I'll assume WP:AGF and assume that this nomination was made by mistake. List of lists is exactly what this should be and it doesn't have any POV in it. Please remove this whole nomination. --It doesn't set out the criteria anymore, which was written exactly that way in all 3 articles so it didn't suggest anything, but I removed it. Now it's compltelely neutral. Nomination should be speedily removed... obviously it's a disambguition for 3 differnet palestinian lists and it's important to have. Amoruso 02:12, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Come now, any terrorism related article has the potential to be regarded as POV by somone, so I don't see how you find it so unbelievable. The edits you made are an improvement however. I appreciate that you're only trying to organise information in the best way possible, but I'm not sure if this is it. A list of lists seems a rather awkward way to go about things. This list is not a list of Palestinian suicide attacks, but a list of lists of Palestinian suicide attacks. Does this list do anything that Category:Suicide bombing in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict doesn't? I just feel it adds no encyclopaedic value. Martin 02:31, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I find it strange you say it's POV and mention the word terrorism which was never used here. The category is a category and this is a list - we want people to see the entire list together and not different events. Category suicide bombing can contain events that aren't even suicide bombings but reactions to bombings and so on. This is simply a disambiguation link to the 3 lists, because else a redirect will be misleading to only ONE of them. Basically, it's a smarter redirect. I don't see how this can be problematic in any sort. You also didn't bring any arguments against this - you're saying it's redundant because there's a related category ? That doesn't make too much sense IMO and definitely not a reason for deletion. Amoruso 02:42, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, going by WP:LISTV, I think the use of categories vs. lists is a valid concern: "lists which consist solely of links and nothing else are liable to speedy deletion under criterion A3". And as I'm sure you're aware, terrorism was mentioned in your original draft of the article. Regardless, I've been thinking about it, and perhaps a Palestinian suicide attacks (disambiguation) article, or something of that nature, would be a better choice? If it's intended to be a disambiguation page, then let's not be ambiguous. :) Martin 02:53, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Terrorism was not mentioned but a link to an article called terorrism... I don't mind name changes to the article. I also wouldn't mind a Category:Lists of palestinian suicide attacks which will contain these 3 lists ! Amoruso 02:58, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


 * lol...there are some people less charitable than myself who might view that as content forking, but that's another matter. Anyhow, have a think about my suggestions. If you want a disambiguation page, then it's probably better to just create one, rather than mess around with lists and such. That way, if someone searches for "Palestinian suicide attacks" (or whatever), they get a page saying "Palestinian suicide attacks could refer to...". The page could then also link to other appropriate articles about suicide bombings, etc. Martin 03:11, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


 * just do what you think is best and then we'll see if it's good enough. I don't know if the page can be moved now. Amoruso 08:33, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete as listcruft. --Dennisthe2 03:35, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * now that's really strange thought. I showed how useful this is in the israeli palestinian template, definitely not cruft. Amoruso 08:36, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete The WP:CRUFT page suggests otherwise, lists of lists are called listcruft, would go better as a category instead, maybe Category:Palestinian suicide attacks? Michael Billington (talk • contribs) 12:16, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Provisional keep. I see the cruft argument but I believe this has a valid purpose and is, importantly, in use as a navigational aid. I don't see the argument against defining the scope (attacks against civilians vs. attacks against the Israeli military is fairly straightforward and broadly accepted) since that helps keep the list from becoming POV (and editors often argue on AFD for defining the scope of an article down). The list could conceivably include suicide attacks by groups other than Hamas, Fatah, and IJ, but I don't know if there are any that have been so attributed. This isn't a list of lists, it's a single list with three logical subarticles. Now, if there's any improvement that could be made, I would actually reverse merge the relatively brief content of the Al-Aqsa and PIJ lists into this one and keep only Hamas separate. But they're separate, probably, so they can be articles in the categories for those groups. Really, it's not as if Hamas, AAMB and PIJ are all fighting separate wars (although they are fighting separately within the same war, to clarify the distinction). --Dhartung | Talk 19:41, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep. I'm not sure if the criteria are correct or not, but an article of that title (or a similar one) is legitimate, IMO. Deet 02:50, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep. It is a navigational article, for convenience. Deletion criteria (notability, verifiability, NPOV, etc) are simply inapplicable here: it may be deleted only if almost all listed lists become deleted or merged. Then it may be deleted on the basis of redundancy. Mukadderat 09:02, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
 * A list containing only links is liable for speedy deletion. This should be a disambiguation page, not a list. Martin 15:53, 16 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep as per Deetdeet and Mukadderat, although a disambiguation page would be as useful.Noroton 00:25, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep as per Amoruso above. Smeelgova 04:18, 18 October 2006 (UTC).


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.