Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Philippine Military Academy alumni


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Withdrawn. Still think this could be merged into the parent article, but obviously no longer needs deleting Jac 16888  Talk 11:20, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

List of Philippine Military Academy alumni

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Seems to be a list of pratically every single person who has ever gone to this school regardless of notability. Entirely unsourced and I see no reason the why the few who are notable can't be either in a category or listed on the academy page Jac 16888  Talk 10:20, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * My prod removal edit summary in full: 'List includes a president, more than one secretary of defense, and over 100 flag officers; even if all non-linked names were removed, meets Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Stand-alone lists.'
 * This is a 75 year old national military academy; it should not be surprising that over a hundred graduates have gone on to become flag officers, all of whom meet the current guideline of WikiProject Military history/Notability guide: '#3. Held a rank considered to be a flag, general or air officer, or their historical equivalents; or'; if it was only the president and multiple secretaries of defense, this could undoubtedly fit in the main article, and this is not a complete class roster. There are sufficient blue links to show that the list meets basic requirements. Entries without ranks may not meet #3, but may meet #5. 'Played an important role in a significant military event; or; #6. 'Commanded a substantial body of troops in combat; or', and should be pruned with care. Needs some sourcing, but alumni lists need not source every entry. Dru of Id (talk) 14:58, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Wikiproject guidelines hold little weight, perhaps if you read the requirements listed on Manual of Style/Stand-alone lists, of this article perhaps a handful of entries meet the first requirement, and none whatsoever meet the second, if I was to remove all entries that therefore do not meet these requirements it would be a very short list indeed-- Jac 16888 Talk 15:34, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * President of the Philippines Fidel V. Ramos doesn't meet the Wikipedia notability requirement? Secretaries of Defense? Senators and Representatives? Dru of Id (talk) 16:06, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Like I said, those are the handful that meet the first requirement. None of it is sourced. Considering we already have Category:Philippine Military Academy alumni, I don't see why this article is necessary at all-- Jac 16888 Talk 16:15, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Struck President Ramos; several USMA graduates have been inserted and will need to be identified and removed. I have sourced three with articles, and the first female valedictorian. Categories and lists are not mutually exclusive; the main advantage of lists is the a reference covering multiple individuals can be NAMEDREFed once, found in one article and used to support others, rather than going through 100+ articles looking for one that also covers your subject. Dru of Id (talk) 16:49, 22 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete based on current content. The vast majority of individuals listed here don't have Wikipedia articles, and many of them don't have any indication near their names here that suggests that they are notable enough such that they ought to have Wikipedia articles. In addition, I notice that Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo is listed under the class of 1978 as an honorary member, which seems misleading; honorary degree recipients shouldn't be listed here, and if she did receive an honorary degree I doubt that happened in 1978 when she was a graduate student in economics, as opposed to later in her life such as when she was a senator, vice president, president, or representative. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 17:05, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Neutral. The above recommendation is no longer relevant now that the list has been significantly edited down. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 01:02, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:23, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 18:23, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Philippines-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 18:24, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 18:24, 22 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep. I took a hatchet to the article, keeping only entries with links to actual wikipedia articles, using the nonguideline WP:WTAF. I also removed the honorifics, which may be contentious but seems very appropriate for the article and perhaps for the summary, not for use prior to the name. (implied at WP:MOSBIO). tedder (talk) 18:35, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Leaving a short list easily fitting into Philippine Military Academy, itself a fairly short article-- Jac 16888 Talk 18:37, 22 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep as stand-alone if size of list of notable alumni merits it, merge only if not. In the future, please remember that AFD is WP:NOTCLEANUP and to consider alternatives to deletion before listing at AFD. Any list that contains non-notable entries that shouldn't should just be edited to remove those entries, and maybe merged to a proper parent topic if it is not large enough. postdlf (talk) 23:59, 22 April 2012 (UTC)


 * I've restored the other Secretary of National Defense with an article; no page exists on the DND website for him, although his picture is in sequence and he was subsequently Secretary of Public Works & Highways, where his bio confirms it. I've !restored the two Philippine Medal of Valor awardees, as their WP:N is automatic; one is the current CG of the Philippine Army. I've commented out other governors, congressmen, and Commanding Generals of the Philippine Army I could reference or sequence (position or dates), and they can be restored as the articles develop. Dru of Id (talk) 10:41, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.