Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Playboy Playmates with big breasts


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was no consensus. - Bobet 10:56, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

List of Playboy Playmates with big breasts
Listcruft with a POV inclution critierion. E ivindt@c 20:17, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The POV could be fixed by renaming the article to the standards set in the article - D-cup or larger. However, I do think that this is an example of "porncruft," so delete. --Mr. L e fty Talk to me! 20:20, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well it's not called List of Playboy Playmates with D-cup size breasts, but even if it was it would still be, as you said, cruft. -- E ivindt@c 20:24, 15 August 2006 (UTC) removing comment after Mr. Lefty changed his. -- E ivindt@c 20:26, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete POV porncruft. Garrepi 20:37, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. Duplicates the info in the categories "Playboy models" and "Adult models".  Also lacks objective standards and so violates WP:OR. -- Slowmover 20:39, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment - I'm on the fence about this one. An earlier version of the list included this in it's intro: "These are the playmates who have a D-cup or larger chest."  I think if that is thrown back in, the "lacks objective standards" argument goes away.  Dismas|(talk) 22:28, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong keep Truly an important topic. How many articles and lists are there about chess?  Big tits are far more important today and in the way they have affected history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ghosts&empties (talk • contribs) 2006-08-15 23:44:40
 * Please explain how the fact that you think this to be "important" relates to the concerns expressed above that this is original research and inherently non-neutral, contravening our No original research and Neutral point of view policies. Uncle G 00:06, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * For a related discussion, see Articles for deletion/List of big-bust models and performers. Uncle G 00:06, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep I have to agree with Ghosts&empties on this one. It's a significant list,and can be an important one. Most of these women represent the bulk of Playboy's most famous models. So historically it can be important. Balin42632003 4:57 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong delete POV by definition. Also it is unnecessary listcruft. Konman72 10:02, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep as per Ghosts&empties. conron_us 6:36 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete: porncruft, duplicative, original research (what does "big" mean?) -- The Anome 11:41, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per The Anome. Angus McLellan (Talk) 14:08, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. I like breasts as much as the next guy, but this is inherently POV. -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 15:46, 16 August 2006 (UTC) Changing to neutral after improvements, still not crazy about the title. -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 16:58, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep. There are so many playboy playmates out there that sublists are useful in navigating them. This one does have an objective stadard -- D cup. Although there is some inherent subjectivity in selectin the standard (eg maybe C is more appropriate), drawing the right line is the sort of consensus building that wikipedia is great at. Interestingstuffadder 17:10, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Nowhere in the list is it explicitly stated that a model must have breasts of a certain size to be included. There's a line about how women must generally have a D-cup or larger to pose, but that's it. -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 18:02, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Ummm...see the third sentence. "These models generally have a D-cup or larger chest". Read in context, this refers to the models on this list, not playboy models in general (which would be absurd because many, many (most, in fact) playboy models have less than a D-cup. Interestingstuffadder 19:04, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Two points: First, the phrasing is ambiguous from context. Second, that "generally" in the graf means that anybody who wants to add a woman with smaller breasts to the list can do so, as long as he or she personally thinks they're big enough to qualify as "big". Hence, the POV thing. You could try making List of Playboy Playmates with cup size greater than C, or changing the inclusion criteria on this list to a verifiable, hard-and-fast wording and purging everyone who doesn't meet it. Otherwise, I have to stick to my opinion. -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 20:59, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I believe I have met your requests. I have inserted a non ambiguous D-cup standard for inclusion. i have also removed the name of every model whose individual article does not assert breast size. if you read playboy you know that not all profiles include cup size in their measurements (some just provide the number), which explains why some have this and some don't. Although I'm sure some unsubstantiated cup size assertions exist on these articles, this seems like the kind of issue that comes down to content issues in individual articles and doesn't seem like a basis for deleting this entire list. Interestingstuffadder 02:36, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Along with a D-cup standard, a 39-inch standard may be inserted as well. The reasons are explained in the article's talk page. (Aditya Kabir 13:49, 22 August 2006 (UTC))


 * Keep Keep Keep. And, once more KEEP. I really wonder how this article was even considered AfD stuff! There's no such notice for List of big-bust models and performers. If we're talking un-encyclopedic phrasing, then it's a simple cleanup job, no AfD voting required. And, what is this cry about porncruft? There is already a Pornstar category sporting enough porncruft. Essentially non-neutral? Wow, from when have started considering a statement on a measurable size "non-neutral"? And, finally where did this question of "orginal research" come from? Doesn't Playboy print bust sizes for its models? To keep the neutral and uncensored nature of WP alive, once again, Keep. (Aditya Kabir 16:39, 17 August 2006 (UTC))
 * At the time it was listed, it didn't say anything about specific measurable standards. -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 12:40, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks to your specific comments, it has now. Updating position to Strong Keep (as if repeating it five times didn't emphasize enough). (Aditya Kabir 17:55, 19 August 2006 (UTC))


 * Strong delete as per slowmover. Unencyclopedic. --Jtalledo (talk) 02:15, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I strongly advise that you check a few of the other lists, before deciding "unencyclopedic". Slowmover's first point is plain strange, as it implies a mixing of lists, which defeats the very idea of making lists (i.e. keeping it simple and accessible). And, Slowmover's second point has long been met since. What's your point? (Aditya Kabir 17:55, 19 August 2006 (UTC))
 * My point is, there's no use for this. It would be far better if you had a list of models (maybe broken up into seperate list articles if necessary) and listed their sizes there - since Playboy apparently prints their bust size, issues can be used as a reference. --Jtalledo (talk) 10:43, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * They don't print the cup size with every issue. They print the chest measurement, e.g. 36-24-36.  Some also note the cup size but not all.  Also, I read a year or so ago, probably in Playboy that the average bra size for U.S. women is a 36C, so D would be the beginning of "Big" since it's the next size past average. Dismas|(talk) 13:28, 20 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Comment:Two solutions - "unsubstantiated" bust sizes should be removed from the list, and, if necessary, the bottomline may be upgraded to DD or more. Besides, the subjective standard of "big bust" has been replaced with an objective standard of D cup anyways. (Aditya Kabir 16:08, 20 August 2006 (UTC))
 * More on the article's talk page. (Aditya Kabir 17:13, 20 August 2006 (UTC))


 * Keep per Interestingstuffadder. Dismas|(talk) 13:28, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.