Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Prime Ministers of Canada with facial hair


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sarahj2107 (talk) 17:49, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

List of Prime Ministers of Canada with facial hair

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Not a reasonable classification for a stand-alone list. power~enwiki ( π, ν ) 15:21, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete. Facial hair is not a lasting characteristic. Most males and some females have some facial hair; some of them shave it off some of the time. And even if it was a lasting characteristic... as power~enwiki says, it's not a reasonable classification. Don't make me create "List of bald Prime Ministers of the UK" or "List of very short kings". Bishonen &#124; talk 15:54, 22 July 2018 (UTC).
 * You could easily find the sources.  freshacconci  (✉) 16:01, 22 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete. I thought this must be a joke/hoax till I read it. However someone has put quite a bit of work in. But it's such an trivial comparator, in that it tells us nothing of importance. And, as noted above, it's also transient. Are we sure the present incumbent never went a week at Canoe Lake without a shave? KJP1 (talk) 16:04, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions.  Kpgj  hpjm  15:29, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions.  Kpgj  hpjm  15:29, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

*Delete:As per Bishonen. Kpgj hpjm  16:31, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Sucks about Jack Layton and Tom Mulcair but fingers crossed for Jagmeet Singh!  freshacconci  (✉) 15:56, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment An obvious US-bias when it comes to similar lists at AfD: USA - KEEP!, USA - KEEP!, USA - KEEP!, New Zealand - DELETE! and Australia - DELETE!.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 16:13, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete While the AfDs provided by Lugnuts do show that there is indeed a content bias, the reason for the keep consensus in those cases was that there were reliable secondary sources which utilized this classification. I found no similar sources for Canadian prime ministers, and the ones in the article don't seem to discuss it, rather, it seems to be WP:OR. So I think this one fails to satisfy the GNG. Even if it did pass the GNG, I think it would go against WP:NOTDIRECTORY, and I think the American lists pointed out by Lugnuts should also be deleted for the same reason and the reasons given above: it is not a lasting characteristic for classification. Wugapodes [thɔk] [ˈkan.ˌʧɻɪbz] 16:47, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Changing to Keep given the sources from Largoplazo below. I think there's a legitimate problem with regards to WP:NOTDIRECTORY regardless of notability, but I think that needs to be a larger discussion on these types of lists rather than something settled here. As it is, I think this passes the GNG, and it seems that is sufficient given previous AfDs on similar lists. Wugapodes [thɔk] [ˈkan.ˌʧɻɪbz] 21:36, 22 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment I was going to nominate this as a not-possibly-notable intersectional list under WP:LISTN, but I thought due diligence demanded a WP:BEFORE search and I turned up a few pieces covering the beardedness of Canadian PMs, such as Macleans in 2014, The National Post in 2015, The Tyee in 2012. Largoplazo (talk) 17:32, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. as I am the founder of this page I say KEEP. if the Americans can have a page List of Presidents of the United States with facial hair then the Canadians can have a page. I see No difference at all. QubecMan (talk) 00:00, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Ajf773 (talk) 18:43, 27 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep per QubecMan. 344917661X (talk) 00:51, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. Although this is clearly a slightly strange and even entertaining article that has reasons both for and against deletion, QubecMan has made a clear and strong argument in favour of keeping the article.(Greenleader) 18:14, 24 July (UTC)
 * Delete. Some American social scientists are fixated on the effect of presidential facial hair, Canadians not so much with PMs. It gets an occasional filler article in newspapers, but that's not enough. We don't have the equivalent of Grace Bedell in the Great White North. Clarityfiend (talk) 10:02, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * That's a personal opinion. QubecMan (talk) 02:41, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
 * No it isn't. It's a comment on the difference in reliable sourcing between the two topics. Bishonen &#124; talk 05:40, 25 July 2018 (UTC).


 * I make a second note if we have pages such as List of Prime Ministers of Canada by academic degrees,List of Prime Ministers of Canada by military service,List of Prime Ministers of Canada by residence, Spouse of the Prime Minister of Canada,Children of the Prime Ministers of Canada, Parents of the Prime Ministers of Canada, and List of burial places for Prime Ministers of Canada then we can have a page like this. QubecMan (talk) 04:33, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Please see Other crap exists. Bishonen &#124; talk 05:40, 25 July 2018 (UTC).
 * Those should also be deleted. In fact, let me kill two lists of relatives with one stone/Afd. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:11, 25 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete. This is a list of trivia, not telling us anything important or valuable about the prime ministers. This is not a thing reliable sources analyze all that much in Canadian politics or history — the sources being cited here for whether a prime minister had facial hair or not are just the photographs on their parliamentarian profiles on the House of Commons website, not reliable source analysis about whether having a beard did or didn't have an impact on their political careers. Canada does not automatically need an exact equivalent to every single article the United States happens to have — the encyclopedic value of the US list is questionable too, but at the very least there's actually some evidence of reliable source analysis there that isn't present here. So they each need to be considered on their own merits or lack thereof, not yoked together in a game of WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Of the new sources Largoplazo offered above, Maclean's is just a fluffball "which one had the best facial hair?" listicle, while the National Post is just a list of all the possible firsts that any result in the 2015 election would have produced, including age records (which happened), number of consecutive election wins (which didn't), first son of a former PM to become PM (which happened) and first NDP government at the federal level (which didn't) — and the latter contains just one blurb about Tom Mulcair's beard which includes no analysis of why a guy with a beard winning the election would be a significant achievement and not just an answer to a question in the eventual 2010s Nostalgia edition of Trivial Pursuit in the alternate universe where Mulcair had won — and because he didn't become Prime Minister in this universe, that source doesn't aid the notability of this list at all. The only source that's actually adding any substantive analysis of beards in politics is the Tyee link — but even that was written by an undergraduate political science student, not a professional political science academic. So those sources simply aren't enough to make this noteworthy. Bearcat (talk) 16:21, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete: Lacks sources that discuss the entries as a group; does not meet WP:LISTN. Beyond that, WP:LISTCRUFT, trivia, and indiscriminate amount of information. --K.e.coffman (talk) 03:55, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Kraose (talk) 09:41, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I also encourage people to nominate List of Presidents of the United States with facial hair for deletion and I will cast my vote as "delete" there. Kraose (talk) 09:42, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Here's the real distinction between the two. Presidents are elected by direct vote, and their appearance is known to sway voters' choices (prime example: Kennedy Nixon debates), whereas prime ministers are chosen by the party in power, so it isn't as important or formally studied. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:48, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I still don't consider List of Presidents of the United States with facial hair as anything more than a trivia. After this discussion we should nominate that article for deletion. Kraose (talk) 08:31, 30 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment. The various AFD nominations for List of Presidents of the United States with facial hair note that the subject of facial hair on U.S. Presidents has been the subject of scholarly publication. I would be wary of looking to no more the several keep discussions for that article without consideration of whether the same factors apply to this article. Has there been academic publications discussion the facial hair of Canadian Prime Ministers, for example?
 * It's not as simple as "if the Americans can have a page List of Presidents of the United States with facial hair then the Canadians can have a page." TJRC (talk) 21:04, 26 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep - The previous 3 AfD's for "List of Presidents of the United States with facial hair" does give rise to have set set precedence. Should someone venture into creating a 4'th AfD for the USA one, then please do and let me know (I'll likely vote delete, to overturn precedence). -- DexterPointy (talk) 21:28, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment. The various AFD nominations for List of Presidents of the United States with facial hair is Sicken, Clarityfiend rightly said American social scientists are fixated on the effect of presidential facial hair, Canadians not so much with PMs. I would say Keep for the US presidents otherwise the person who is trying to get rid of it is being a Bully and vindictive to Me.QubecMan (talk) 02:59, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Might I remind you User:QubecMan of WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Just because somebody voted delete, doesn't mean they're out to get you. --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk • ✍️ Contributions) Please ping me if you had replied 14:43, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
 * QubecMan, I can't follow your logic, but this personal note is ridiculous, as if they're out to get you. Please see WP:NPA. Drmies (talk) 14:36, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. Tyw7  (🗣️ Talk • ✍️ Contributions) Please ping me if you had replied 14:33, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fashion-related deletion discussions. Tyw7  (🗣️ Talk • ✍️ Contributions) Please ping me if you had replied 14:33, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. Tyw7  (🗣️ Talk • ✍️ Contributions) Please ping me if you had replied 14:33, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Tyw7</i>  (🗣️ Talk • ✍️ Contributions) Please ping me if you had replied 14:33, 27 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete as WP:LISTCRUFT. Same reasons why Articles for deletion/List of Prime Ministers of New Zealand with facial hair and Articles for deletion/List of Prime Ministers of Australia with facial hair (2nd nomination) were deleted. Ajf773 (talk) 18:42, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete for trivialness unless someone wants to create an article 'List of Prime Ministers of Canada without Facial hair' to go with it .JC7V7DC5768 (talk) 22:12, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete. Trivial, cross-categorization LISTCRUFT that fails . Sam Sailor 09:48, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete. Absolutely useless trivia. Does it contain Prime Ministers that sometimes had facial hair? Don't most men have some, at some point in their lives? Ifnord (talk) 17:56, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete on account of practically complete lack of encyclopaedic interest and purpose. If an editor posts up a List of Prime Ministers of Canada with Shaved Pubic Hair I might reconsider. You think I'm joking but I'm just shaking my head very slowly. -The Gnome (talk) 15:10, 31 July 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.