Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Protestant missionaries killed during the Boxer Rebellion


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. As with Articles for deletion/List of China Inland Mission missionaries killed during the Boxer Rebellion, the arguments for deletion are more grounded in policy and guideline than the arguments for retention here. –MuZemike 00:05, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

List of Protestant missionaries killed during the Boxer Rebellion

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

List of non-notable people. Everard Proudfoot (talk) 20:39, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions.  -- Favonian (talk) 20:51, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep. My arguments are given in this page. Please go there for discussion. --GnuDoyng (talk) 02:52, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The supposed arguments are not an argument, but a bold-faced claim unsubstantiated. Everard Proudfoot (talk) 17:43, 29 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Strong Keep My argument is also at this page. Of all the useless pages of lists on Wikipedia, I don't understand the rationale for scrapping one that historians, students and many others might use as a helpful reference Vartanza (talk) 05:15, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete WP:NOTMEMORIAL. If these people don't have their own articles, then this is a memorial page. 76.66.195.196 (talk) 06:16, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment. The vote above is invalid. Please log in to vote again. --GnuDoyng (talk) 07:13, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment on comment. There is no rule against IP editors contributing to a deletion discussion.  And by the way: we do not vote, we argue.  Favonian (talk) 08:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep. I would argue that they are notable because of how they died. They are considered martyrs and as such they are more than a list of non-notable casualties of a war. A book about them was just published in Chinese. http://user.qzone.qq.com/419752890/blog/1269504274Brian0324 (talk) 13:34, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Victims of crimes are not notable because of their having been victimes of crimes. Everard Proudfoot (talk) 17:43, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * ...unless the crime was a noteworthy international incident.Brian0324 (talk) 18:22, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete If they are notable individually, then they should have individual articles. If they are notable collectively, that notability should be in a different article that talks about what happened and why, not lists their names.  That article, in fact, appears to already exist at China Martyrs of 1900.  gnfnrf (talk) 14:06, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment. Then why not just merge - rather than delete?Brian0324 (talk) 17:31, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose merge. Everard Proudfoot (talk) 17:43, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Because I don't think the names would add anything useful to the parent article. gnfnrf (talk) 23:05, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * (semi-sarcastic) Comment. This is why Wikipedia needs relevant, historical information to be contributed and not deleted.Brian0324 (talk) 20:47, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * reply Could we just delete all the Pokemon, please? They have a Poke-wiki now... 76.66.195.196 (talk) 05:14, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment. Columbine High School massacre Here is an example of non-notable names included in an article of a notable incident.Brian0324 (talk) 18:25, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 * That's not a List of victims of the Trenchcoat Mafia though. That Columbine article is not a victim list; further the Boxer Rebellion is more or less a war. We don't have a List of Jews killed during the Holocaust or List of AEF soldiers executed for cowardice under John J. Pershing. 76.66.195.196 (talk) 20:41, 30 June 2010 (UTC
 * I would even argue that this list is more relevant than the Columbine lists included in that article. They were non-notable casualties chosen at random. This list highlights a targeted persecution of a select group of people with a certain religion and profession. At the very least I think that a list of the agencies involved with the statistics for each one would be helpful in the main article if keeping this list is out of the question.Brian0324 (talk) 21:06, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Would you then created a List of Tutsis killed in the Hutu uprising in Rwanda or List of Armenians killed by the Ottomans during the genocide ? 76.66.195.196 (talk) 23:29, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 * These western missionaries died for a cause in which we believe: not only Brian and I but millions of Chinese. Is there anything wrong with that? To create a List of Tutsis killed in the Hutu uprising in Rwanda? Well, if their death were important to my culture I would. Why not? --GnuDoyng (talk) 00:41, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Lots of people die for a cause, like those buddy brigades who signed up all in one go in England for WWI; I don't see how creating a list of them wouldn't be violating WP:NOTMEMORIAL, similarly for any other such list. All those Al-Qaeda jihadhists who martyr themselves are dying for a cause they believe in, and apparently alot of people also believe in. So if millions of Muslim Arabs believe in it, then we should have a List of the faithful martyred by the Great Satan in the cause for liberation of the Holy Land from corrupt occupation ? And then there are the Mormons martyred by Protestants in the Midwest. Lets create a list for them, since LDS members go on pilgrimage to the Midwest from Utah to commemorate their origins and flight from discrimination. Look at all the Cathars who died for their cause when the Catholic Church martyred the residents of Carcassonne... let's make a list of all of those people too. And the Jews executed by the Spanish Inquisition after the Castillian unification of Hispania, who died for their beliefs rather than be converted to Christianity. Or the Victims of the War of Northern Aggression, when the North brutally subjugated the South, when the South refused to have States Rights crushed under the heel of Northern domination ? Or a List of deaths on the Bataan Death March, who died for the United States. Or a list of every Hospitalier Knight who died in battle against the Saracens? 76.66.195.196 (talk) 05:57, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Nice rant, btw.Brian0324 (talk) 15:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
 * On another note, there is an article that is more analogous to the Columbine article already... which also doesn't contain any list of martyrs... China Martyrs of 1900. 76.66.195.196 (talk) 05:58, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that China Martyrs of 1900 could incorporate a list of casualties by agency at the very least. This isn't a ponderously long list, but if it is deemed too insignificant to stand alone, then the main article should be China Martyrs of 1900. But some here are opposed to an outright merge.Brian0324 (talk) 15:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment List of Itchy & Scratchy cartoons Here's another example of a trivial list on Wikipedia.Brian0324 (talk) 15:59, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
 * And it's not a very good article and perhaps should be deleted. But, at least it has something to say about each element of its list.  If it were nothing but the title of each cartoon, it would be even worse (and more similar to the article under discussion here).  Be careful when constructing WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS arguments, since they are are often not thought of as very convincing. gnfnrf (talk) 19:16, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep. I have found it and similar uses pragmatically useful.(smjwalsh (talk) 16:03, 5 July 2010 (UTC))
 * Delete Clearly falls under the provisions of WP:NOTMEMORIAL. Favonian (talk) 18:49, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.