Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of San Diego County Gangs


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 20:51, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

List of San Diego County Gangs

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Almost entirely unsourced list that is unverifiable and unmaintainable. Kevin (talk) 10:36, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete-Per Kevin--Skater (talk) 11:43, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Obviously unreliable. They left out the Westside Wiki Witches.  Durova Charge! 16:52, 30 April 2009 (UTC) stews
 * Two Questions - (1) Why would something be unmaintainable? To maintain it, all you have to do is add new gangs when they crop up.  (2) Did you try sourcing the list?  Can it be sourced? If so, it should be tagged as such, and not deleted. — LinguistAtLarge • Talk  18:04, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I tried sourcing the list, but was unable to. I also asked the original author to add sources, and then waited to see if this happened, which it did not. Kevin (talk) 21:46, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete - All content that I spot-checked in the article is not verifiable on the internet. Some (or all) of this is probably a hoax. — LinguistAtLarge • Talk  18:12, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't Delete Why delete this? These are legitimate street gangs in San Diego. This page may help parents and law enforcement in San Diego County recognize gang monikers.  This page is well organized-more so that most of the other gang lists on wiki.  The content is verifiable on the internet.  I went to the websites that were listed as the sources.  One website (streetgangs.com) is ran by a PhD who specializes in gang culture. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.220.80.234 (talk)
 * "Legitimate street gangs": isn't that an oxymoron? Durova Charge! 20:13, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Durova, don't you know if you buy a license from San Diego county you can make your gang legitimate? The sheriff's office makes an extra effort to go after the gangs who didn't buy licenses. (That's how the 42nd Street Mooks were put out of business.) Gangs can get into a lot of trouble just for not paying their $100 to the county clerk. -- llywrch (talk) 05:46, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Do not delete I don't understand why someone would think this page is a hoax.  I work with ex-gangmembers and active gang members from Southeast and South Bay San Diego near downtown as a couselor.  The enteries are legitimate.  In fact, there are some gangs that are not on that list.  I am assuming that the  author is either in law enforcement or is a gang couselor, since the enteries also include initials and numbers associated with the gangs.  The info here is very detailed, which makes doubt that a layman wrote the list.70.179.24.17 (talk) 20:16, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This user's first ever edit was to this page. --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:16, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:ATP and a resouding lack of sufficient WP:V for the negatives portrayed. This is a legal headache waiting to happen. Jclemens (talk) 20:56, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't Delete Legal headache??? LOL Over what??  That list is a good resource.  There are a lot of gang lists on wiki.  Why is everybody up in arms over this one.  This page is put together well.  Maybe they should lock it for editing, so people cannot vandalize it.  That makes more sense that deleting the whole page.  99.174.244.164 (talk) 21:34, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This user's first ever edit was to this page. --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:16, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment While a list of criminal gangs in San Diego (or any city) is possible on one level -- namely compiling a list of groups mentioned in news & police reports -- the problem is that both sources do get facts for a number of reasons. Probably the most important one is that informants & gang members lie. So the article title probably should be "List of alleged San Diego county Gangs". And a last point -- I find it odd that 3 different anon IPs all vote "Don't delete", not "Keep". -- llywrch (talk) 05:46, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete I failed just like LinguistAtLarge when I tried to verify the contents including an attempt at the mentioned website. To the people questioning the discussion: Wikipedia reports on what is verifiable. Proof it is verifiable instead of making empty claims and we'd be happy to listen. - Mgm|(talk) 12:05, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - unverifiable. Concerning the (alleged) existence of other gang lists on Wikipedia, this is an WP:OTHERSTUFF argument; we're only discussing this list. If this list is a useful resource, it will have to be hosted somewhere else. -kotra (talk) 18:00, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - Not important. Most of these gangs wouldn't be notable enough anyway. Enough said. --Sky Attacker (talk) 02:19, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment This is quite a detailed list, and not at all random. It seems appropriate to include on a talk page for List of California street gangs until dagosocal finds time or inclination to explain where it comes from.  I do wonder why these IPs are all interested in keeping it and why the creator doesn't defend it, but don't see an immediate reason for deletion beyond moving it out of the main article space. +sj +  10:47, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. This list looks real to me.  Many of the ones that aren't marked "inactive" check out, and you wouldn't exactly expect defunct gangs from the 70s to be at the top of google.  I would suggest, however, that we get rid of the mass of redlinks for the purely local groups, because they're not individually notable (though I do think they properly merit this list-style treatment).--Pharos (talk) 12:55, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - Not verifiable as reliable sources are not possible and who can agree on the definition of "gang"? Kaldari (talk) 22:41, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I’m quite surprised that this list I put together has generated so much response. The main reason I created the list was for a resource for parents and other citizens that are interested in the gang culture in San Diego.  The list is not a hoax, in fact, it is very accurate.  Some of the gang names might sound silly to the general public, even though there is a deep rooted “street’ meaning behind them.  For example:  West Side Fuck Klowns (WSFK) does not get along with Southeast San Diego (SESD) area gangs.  Many members of SESD gangs refer to themselves as “Klowns.”  So, WSFK uses its own moniker as disrespect towards SESD gangs.

I have been working with San Diego County street gangs for over 20 years. I have pooled this list from accurate law enforcement reports (federal and local), gang intervention councilors, ex-gang members, and from active gang members. Unfortunately, there are almost no sources of published primary literature that list off these gangs. That is why the sources section is short.

Some notes on the comments:

“This is a legal headache waiting to happen.” Jclemens (talk) 20:56, 30 April 2009 (UTC) I don’t understand what kind of legal headace this list would cause, please elaborate.

“These are legitimate street gangs in San Diego.”—Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.220.80.234 (talk) "Legitimate street gangs": isn't that an oxymoron? “DurovaCharge! 20:13, 30 April 2009 (UTC) Legitimate street gang as opposed to wanna bes? Legitimacy can be open to debate though.

“the problem is that both sources do get facts for a number of reasons. Probably the most important one is that informants & gang members lie. So the article title probably should be "List of alleged San Diego county Gangs.”-- llywrch (talk) 05:46, 1 May 2009 (UTC) It is true that informant/gang members lie. Usually this is done when a subject is under pressure from law enforcement to give some information.  Subjects will sometimes give false information to appease an officer or lawyer.  This information is them followed up on, and almost always discredited.  None of the gangs on this list were obtained from situations such as those.

“…who can agree on the definition of "gang"?” Kaldari (talk) 22:41, 6 May 2009 (UTC) Very true! Some of the gangs on this list can be surely open to debate as a gang depending on a certain enforcement branch’s/municipality’s/person’s/law’s definition of what a gang is. That is why there is a discussion section, and why wiki allows edits from the general public.

“Not important. Most of these gangs wouldn't be notable enough anyway. Enough said.” --Sky Attacker (talk) 02:19, 2 May 2009 (UTC) Matter of personal opinion. More than a few of these gangs have been in the national spotlight. Dagosocal (talk) 03:23, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.