Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Saskatchewan provincial roads


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was Keep, improvements appear to have negated most of the reasons given by those !voting Delete.  E LIMINATOR JR  12:44, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

List of Saskatchewan provincial roads

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

This is a list of a lot of rural roads, with nothing setting any apart from any others. I don't see the use of the list, and I'm a "roadgeek". NE2 02:18, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep "This is a list of a lot of rural roads, with nothing setting any apart from any others." - Did you read the descriptions that follow each road name? One can find many things that demonstrate the roads' differences. "I don't see the use of the list, and I'm a 'roadgeek'." The list is meant to be a collection of all Saskatchewan rural roads that are not necessarily highways. It is similar to a list of highways within a province, but not all of the roads would have their own articles. Ultraflame 02:35, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete My reading of Wiki Lists: list pages should link to a page written on the subject. There is no such page talking about Saskatchewan roads, so there should be no List page. Q.E.D. MarkBul 03:04, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * What about the lists of Pokémon (List of Pokémon (61-80), for example)? Few of those link to any articles (and if they exist, they are intended to be deleted before long). Should those be deleted also, even though most members of WikiProject Pokémon (myself included) support the switch to the list format? Ultraflame 00:37, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep (Must say I have a vested interest in this topic as I was original creator)... And I will add for now just six seven rationales for keeping the article....
 * There are currently lists being prodded for deletion because they only mention in the listing articles created and in a category, so the deletion says the list has to leave, as the info is already covered in the category. In this case, the list is original and helps to create articles for the category.
 * The other rationale for keeping this article, is that many of these roads define a large part of Saskatchewan's history. As the roads which are named, for example...Haultain Road, Strehlow Road, Indi Road all mark either communities which centered around a one room school house, or town which no longer exists, or which may exist depending on the road name and place. These placenames all had a rich and vibrant history in the Sifton Last Best West immigration era. Towns, schools, elevators, needed to be about miles apart in the horse and buggy days, and the industrial revolution caused a change in Saskatchewan scenery, as mechanisation meant larger centres further apart. These roads thus named, help us to find our Saskatchewan past and roots. Cemeteries can be located for genealogists, one room school houses, and ghost towns for historians come alive with our provincial roads, for one example.
 * When traveling to locations in Saskatchewan and one needs to locate for instance.... FOREST NOOK School District # 2048 at Sec Tsp 27 Rge 8 W of the 2 Meridian Sk A near Jedburgh, P.O. the directions can only be cited using rural roads and their names, identifcation, notability make travel so, so, so much easier. Or perhaps a genealogist from England travels to Saskatchewan and wishes to locate family ancestry at Delisle Fron Lutheran Cemetery which is located at  NW Section  19-Tsp35-Rge8-W3, the directions again rely on rural Saskatchewan roads which also can be located, traveled upon much much easier with naming, identification, and notability to recognize our ancestry again.   Or perhaps a historian wishes to find an early homestead for a provincial or national historic site, and once again, the legal land description can only be arrived at with rural road travel. More currently our rural residents are familiar with their neighborhood, but the census taker still needs also to know the roads to arrive at their destination to enumerate our population, a rural resident requires counting and recognition of an early ethinc bloc settlement which has evolved into a current placename of history is just as important as the urban residents.
 * Fourth Rationale...Some of our newer rural industries such as Doepker Industries who are trailer makers in Annaheim, Saskatchewan require rural roads for their sustenance and survival in Saskatchewan, as Annaheim is not located on a highway, but is located on a rural road, and Doepker industries could not get its semi truck trailers into sales without travel on these rural roads.
 * Fifth rationale...As just a few points can be considered, it should be enough to suffice the beginning of an article, especially as an article on Saskatchewan Provincial roads could expand with references and sources, and not just a few thoughts which spring to mind. So an article on Provincial roads could indeed be begun.
 * Sixth Rationale...I opened nearly every provincial highway listing, across Canada....as well as a few U.S. state highway listings, and none of them have an article about the list...but do the same introductory paragraph... that the wikilink is around the state / province, and a wikilink is around the article defining interstate/highway/road but not an article pertaining to the roads and highways of that locale for any of the lists, which seems that the immediately preceding comment is not valid for a whole host of lists...I will open a few more non highway as well as non road lists shortly and see if the above comment by another user is valid for other topic lists, and if it is used in practice.
 * Seventh rationale...the governance and upkeep of the various roads are by the Rural municipality with provincial government assistance whereas the highways are provincial government upkeep. So the manpower, finances, maintenance issues are varied and diverse in various fields of endeavours.   SriMesh |  talk  03:30, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * New comment regarding Keep. Would like permission to change name of article to 'Saskatchewan provincial roads'.


 * The red links regarding roads have been deleted
 * An under construction article regarding the preliminary history of Saskatchewan roads is added to the list...which is still being sourced for more additional information and history.

Deleting anything with road in the title eliminates quite a few range roads and township roads which really have another highway name as well. The moniker range roads and township roads is a legal land description naming convention in Saskatchewan dealing with location, and many range roads and township roads are A.K.A. highways. SriMesh | talk  05:13, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * With road article definition added of roads and how they rank compared to highways will help to define notability. There are Saskatchewan roads which are small gravel roads, and there are paved roads which are secondary highways, which connect or are concurrent with highways for the majority of their length.  As the rail lines close down, roads are upgraded to highways to support local mining or oil and gas industry as well as to get grain to market.  Is there a definition of notability regarding...
 * A. number of vehicles that travel the road/highway
 * B. length of road/highway
 * C. construction material of the road/highway
 * D. residential centers of the road/highway
 * E. industry of the road/highway
 * F. what the road provides travel for - people - tourism - industry - goods - products - 'why the heck was it made in the first place, most roads in Saskatchewan are not decoration, and why the heck is it maintained and why the heck is it being upgraded from road to highway or gravel road to paved road and / or why the heck is it being left to deteriorate and become abandoned....?
 * G. Just delete anything with road in the title....


 * Me again, as the article progresses there develop two notions regarding notability guidelines one of which is functionality and amount of use and classification of road or highway as major arterial, minor arterial, collector and local, as well Notability standards comprise how many times the topic is mentioned in other sources.... showing significant coverage.SriMesh | talk  02:56, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

"Ideally each entry on the list should have a Wikipedia article but this is not required if it is reasonable to expect an article could be forthcoming in the future." Is there going to be an article on Saskatchewan roads any time soon? MarkBul 05:09, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Under WP:SAL
 * Article begun under construction at the top of the list article as we speak now...SriMesh | talk  05:22, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * We will determine if any of the roads are notable enough to have their own articles. In any case, we currently have 8th Street East (Saskatoon, Saskatchewan) and Grasswood Road, Saskatchewan. Valley Road, Saskatchewan redirects to Saskatchewan Highway 762. Ultraflame 00:37, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep, articles like this are almost common: Category:Lists of roads. Unless someone comes up with general criteria for this stuff, there is no reason to delete the Saskatchewan road list, while keeping others. --Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 06:54, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Nothing on the list is notable. They are all dime-a-dozen two-lane roads, maintained locally. The notable ones are in List of Saskatchewan provincial highways. --NE2 07:00, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The cat also contains stuff like List of county routes in Middlesex County, New Jersey and List of traffic circles in New Jersey. Please don't mention WP:OTHERSTUFFETC, I know that one. But its useless to start deleting articles like this when there are no guidelines on roads etc... --Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 13:39, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * A proposal for a notability guideline was started here, but was rejected citing "instruction creep". -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 06:16, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete - I can understand if these were major highways, but every single roads in a province?  I think this falls under WP:NOT#DIRECTORY Corpx 09:22, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Then why are there so many lists of local roads elsewhere (some of which were mentioned by Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr))? Do you support deleting all of those as well? I will again mention the lists of Pokémon, and you may find the rationale of merging the Pokémon articles yourself. Ultraflame 00:37, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeap, will gladly support deletion of those Corpx 18:47, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Then you may nominate them for deletion. Ultraflame 03:22, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Weak Delete As per above. WP:NOT#DIRECTORY. Remotely interesting however. Pursey 12:53, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep After looking over it again and considering the rationale of the original creator, I'm inclined to agree that this article does have some merit. I'll give it benefit of the doubt in this case, and change my original statement to be one of Support for Keeping the article. Pursey 14:25, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete: In my view, this "article" could be either kept or deleted. However, if kept, it needs a lot of reworking, including the delinking of every single one of those roads. I don't see how an article on any of those roads would ever make it to B-class or better; I would also be hard-pressed to defend any of them if they were individually taken to AFD. The articles also use the wrong disambiguation, as roads should use "(Saskatchewan)" instead of ", Saskatchewan". But returning to the point of this page...the pivotal question is whether a list of individual non-notable roads is notable by itself. Personally, I don't believe it is. -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 06:14, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe I have already stated that I do not intend for all of the roads listed to have their own articles. If you do not agree with lists of roads, do you also agree with deleting every single local road list existing on Wikipedia? Ultraflame 03:17, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Local road lists, yes. -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 03:19, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete: At first I thought this was the list of provincial highways. However, it is not. This is too confusing, and is a red link farm, or at least a perma-stub farm. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 18:17, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete: Ah yes - It did strike me at first as a list of Provincial highways. but alas - one should rightfully question the notability of the article links that have been listed here.  Even if all are notable (which I would not say as such) - you're looking at perma-stubs here.  Nonetheless it is essentially a red-link farm.   master son T - C 18:24, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * To the two people posting above: We are not aiming to create articles for all of them, just the notable ones. The red links for the less notable roads could be removed, and then paragraphs could be written about them within the road list. Are red links THAT difficult to remove? Ultraflame 03:17, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete This article/list is just an enormous red-link farm. While it does have some merit, it is listing most of the non-notable roads in Saskatchewan, with no line for inclusion and non-inclusion.  Provincial roads in Canada can be practically any road there is, notable or not, and from what I've seen, most of these are not. ( [ →]O - RLY?) 21:26, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep Commnent to the above three red link farm deletionists.  The red links in the article regarding the roads have been removed, and a listing is made to support an article about Saskatchewan roads, and a request made to change the name of the article as such.  From the article development, hopefully, a concrete theory regarding road notability format is established instead of just a mad deletion rush just for the sake of deleting something.  SriMesh |  talk  05:30, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Please also comment on this article Regional road which lists road definition and notable regional roads of Ireland. SriMesh |  talk  00:17, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

The new text looks fine, but the old list should still go. I don't know why you didn't make it as a new article. --NE2 16:13, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.