Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Serb war criminals


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was Delete (article + category).-- Hús  ö  nd  20:18, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

List of Serb war criminals


[ Voice your opinion] (19/0/1)

Part of soapboxing crusade by User:Ancient Land of Bosoni (supposedly the same as User:Bosoni?) A racial POV-fork of List of ICTY indictees, obviously with a strong political point. One way or another, it is accompanied with Category:Serb war criminals so they should go or stay in pair. Duja ► 13:42, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't know wether user Duja has mobilized serb nationalist for this ridiculous vote, or if these supposedly non-serbian voters actually are serbs hiding behind wikipedia accounts. No matter what, you are all voting for the removal of a page listing devilish people - and in doing so you do not less than support them! Some call this page POV just because it lists? It's unbelievable - well it wasn't me or any other editor that killed the children or women which earned the criminals a place on the list of serb criminals. Becasue of your scandalous denial and the belief that commited war crimes should be hidden away and forgotten, your deeds will be answered with consequences. I'm sure these consequences allready are present in your lifes to an extent - how can anyone who votes for denial feel good inside their damaged souls? But like I said time will catch up with anyone who does so. Truth always prevails and those who work against it will regret it deeply with time. The moral equivalence that wikipedia's extremely amateuristic writers are trying to follow is horrible, being neutral does not apply when it comes to choosing between the evil and good side, anyone who thinks so automatically has chosen the evil side. Being equivalent in the Bosnian "war" (aggression!), is like being neutral and equivalent to the Holocaust of Jews. We are talking about peaceful human beings killed by humans possesed by evil forces - and you are neutral?, well keep on dreaming..neutral is the last thing you are. I and every peace loving man or women whish you no good, for people like you are the reason of war and misery, sorry but that is the truth - it's an evil path you have choosen for yourselves. My suggestion to you is to try to save yourselves before it is to late and you will regret all you bad acts. (This will probably be removed sooner than I wrote it, obviously another example of denial and injustice. People you are letting criminals get away with the killing of small boys and girls! Where is the love? Ancient Land of Bosoni
 * All these items already exist on a list which gives more details. You have given no reason to split the Serbs off from the rest of the list. You may want to also see WP:AGF. Many of the users here (such as myself) are giving are opinions based on policy considerations and are not "serbs hiding behind wikipedia accounts." You may also want to see WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA as well. Also note that I've removed the bolding of your statement since it was disruptive and unnecessary. JoshuaZ 17:25, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I guess there's a justification now to add "Serb genocide denialist cabal" to WP:ROUGE and WP:LOC? Duja ► 14:16, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The ICTY-list contains all ethnicities, although serbs make up 95% of the list. We need to recognize that the serb army was much more systematic in killing and crimes than the other armies involved in the conflict - because of this the war criminals belonging to the serb army deserve a list of their own, if nothing else at least because of their huge quantity. Ancient Land of Bosoni

....Correction:Serbs are Gods, they can practically do anything and get away with it, including killing the swedish minster of foreign affairs, Anna Lindh - and have the guts to call it menatl illnes when it was clearly a case of political murder. So what I'm trying to say is, since the serbs are our Gods and all mighty I've realized that it is okey for them to delete this list. I vote for strong delete, and I've had it with you =) Ancient Land of Bosoni
 * No vote from proposer, for reasons of avoiding accusations of conflict of interest. Duja ► 13:43, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete both. Unnecessary sub-category of List of ICTY indictees. What next, "list of coloured FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives"? yandman  14:34, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete The main list is better formatted and I see no reason to break this list off. Although per WP:LIVING for both lists everyone on the lists must be well sourced. JoshuaZ 15:01, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete Arbitrary sub-list, poorly formatted and possibly in violation of WP:NPOV. It is a WP:POVFORK. Localzuk(talk) 15:21, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong delete both per nom.--Еstavisti 15:34, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete both - clearly a WP:POVFORK.--Aldux 15:44, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect appropriately. Newyorkbrad 16:31, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete both as per yandman. --PaxEquilibrium 17:14, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete; redundant with List of ICTY indictees and Category:People convicted by the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia. —Psychonaut 17:21, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * How can you tell that people "are guilty of crimes" if most of them have not been tried? This is pretty disgraceful. delete. -- Ghirla -трёп-  17:28, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete both per nom // Laughing Man 17:34, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong keep both --> Correction: Strong delete Both; It is obvious that some serb Milosevic-era nationalistic editors feel like the list is bad advertising for them, so therefore they want to hide from the rest of the world. The idealistic situation for them seems to be killing a people whitout anyone knowing about it. And how for God's sake can a list be POV?..you heard me a list! I think this vote should be declared unreasonable and forbidden, it is not normal to vote wether the holocaust happened or not, the same goes for the genocide in Bosnia. The ICTY-list contains all ethnicities, and serbs make up 95% of the list. So we need to recognize that the serb army was much more systematic in killing and crimes than the other armies involved in the conflict - because of this the war criminals belonging to the serb army deserve a list of their own, if nothing else at least because of their huge quantity.


 * Comment. Please stop canvassing for votes on this issue -- Armadillo From Hell GateBridge 18:09, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete both, these are redundant with List of ICTY indictees and Category:People convicted by the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia and are simply part of Bosoni's soapbox. It should also be noted that Bosoni is canvassing Bosniak editors for votes (here and here).Osli73 23:07, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

This is all nonsense an to a great deal POV from the users who want to delete the article.

The users who are pro-deletion know that the ordinary "Joe Smith" does not know how o access the categories and overlooks it. Deleting the article for the list is abusrud since less people will look at it.

Now you may ask why a list if we already have a category? Besides the point I stated above looking at a list is easier. Also it is easier to come to the page and easier to search.

You may say that it is repetivie, then tell me why so many other articles are like this that start "list..." on many different language wikipedias.


 * Example: Category:Herbs when there is an article List of herbs and spices.


 * Example: Category:Nazi leaders when there is an article List of Nazi Party leaders and officials

Looking at this, then Wikipedia has too many redundant articles. It is a shame so many have to get deleted now.

Deleting this based on that it is repetivitive is nonsense. So far no one has stated a good reason for the deletion. Why would anyone try to hide the truth if they are criminals? This has nothing to do with their nationaility. The point is to put out the men who did these attrocities in Bosnia and Herzegovina. This is a positive motive. Thank you, Vseferović 19:51, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

User:Aldux they have been indictied and most of them sentenced. This list is neutral and not POV. No one is trying to put in false information. Unless you do not believe in the "world", as some do, justly accusing them for war crimes. Thank you, Vseferović 19:57, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete both of the inflammatory elements. -- TheFE ARgod (Ч) 20:58, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * What if you guys are simply trying to do is to vote in order to get your points out trying to convice others like these users. Can't you see that no one has tried to moblize votes against the deletion. The point is votes so not work as Estavisti has shown when we tried to vote against the redundant template Municipalities of RS. He told me Wikipedia is not a democracy. If we take his point into consideration then voting does nothing. (It stated in Wiki policy). Simply being inflamatory is not a reason. Explain how it would offend anyone? It states the war criminals it is not implying that all serbs are criminals. (A lot of military generals did cause autrocities). Please explain further. Thank you, Vseferović 21:16, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment While I agree that Wikipedia is not the place to launch a crusade deleting this list will not make it go away. This is one of the things that will pop up again and again. We should have a guideline that controversial and inflamatory information of this type should be only published under peer revision and edits be suggested to a neutral committee who approves or disaproves the edits prior to be on public view. Alf photoman 22:41, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Before I'm accused of being partisan one way or the other on this issue, let me say that I'm simply concerned with the encyclopaedic nature of this entry. Firstly, there is only one page which links to it, Bosniak a word I had never heard of until now so I would never have gone there and so never followed the link. If I was interested in finding a list of Serb war criminals, I certainly wouldn't start by typing in "List of Serb war criminals"; I'd try Serbia, or Bosnia or some such easy title, and still not get there. This is one of the problems with Lists of any descritpion - attached to an article they can be useful. As stand alone articles, they are not going to be found. For this reason, I am voting to delete. If someone wants to merge the information into a more suitable article, that's great. Emeraude 22:59, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete - I think this article should be deleted, because it doesn't have any purpose. Before anyone start applying to me terms such as bias and partisan, I would just like to add that there is already an article on this Wikipedia, with ALL of shameless people who are indicted by the Tribunal for taking part war: List of ICTY indictees. That list is very good, it has what they are indicted for, it already has filled sentences for ones who were found guilty, ethnicity, and so on. So, I think it's ridiculous to separate all these criminals based on ethnicity, as I just can not see the point of it. If all of them have been involved in the SAME war and conflict, I don't understand why should we now break this already existing list into three smaller lists and list all over again people of croat, serb, albanian and bosnian ethnicity who were indicted. Why change something that is already there, and looks pretty good? Cuz then Serbs will make a Croat, Bosnian and ALbanian list. And then All of them will say "well he is not a criminal, but a hero" and then there will be million reverts and fighting... See my point??

Svetlana Miljkovic 01:13, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong Delete Both - Shameless POV fork. Torinir ( Ding my phone  My support calls   E-Support Options  ) 03:12, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Comment There appears to be a number of categories covering war criminals, including List of war criminals, War criminals, People convicted of war crimes, People convicted by the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, People indicted by the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia. There appears to be some duplication here - what's the difference between a War criminals and People convicted of war crimes? I think the War criminals and People convicted of war crimes categories need to be merged with List of war criminals. I also think using ethnic tags in a war criminal category would be a dangerous precedent. iruka 06:36, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete - Has no purpose except to promote User:Ancient Land of Bosoni's POV. And some of the people listed on the page had articles created for them soley for teh purpose of being put on this list. Also, I don't know if this is the right place to mention it, but User:Ancient Land of Bosoni is the same user as User:Ancient Bosoni and User:Bosoni (check their page history). - Ivan K - 12:47, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete - As above. --rob.mck. 13:47, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete both. The war criminal categories need to be consolidated though. iruka 04:04, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Comment:Serbs are Gods, they can practically do anything and get away with it, including killing the swedish minster of foreign affairs, Anna Lindh - and have the guts to call it menatl illnes when it was clearly a case of political murder. So what I'm trying to say is, since the serbs are our Gods and all mighty I've realized that it is okey for them to delete this list. I vote for strong delete, and I've had it with you =) Ancient Land of Bosoni


 * Bosoni, give it a rest.Osli73 19:59, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete - As above. -- Sasa  Stefa novic  &bull; 05:01, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I do not really care anymore whether the list is deleted or kept. However, Osli73 you have serious mental issues yourself. I mean I am not a doctor, but go check yourself out for your own benefit. I think Wikipedia is actually getting to you. Just look at your comment, it is absurd if you are not Serbian (which of course you have stated numerous times)... Thank you Vseferović 05:54, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Comment - Let's keep the personal attacks to a minimum, Kseferovic. Thank you. Torinir ( Ding my phone  My support calls   E-Support Options  ) 16:01, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I neither vandalize nor attack users, but how can someone write a comment like that. "Serbs are Gods...", if he was trying to be sarcastic then he failed at it. I mean people have been giving constructive suggestions and arguments over whether or not to keep or delete the article, and then Osli writes an absurd comment like that. Several users have left comments above that do not fit the constructive encyclopedic goals of wikipedia. Thanks, Vseferović 19:58, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


 * If you check, you'll see Bosoni wrote that. I've indented Osli's comment to make it clearly separated. --81.132.189.183 00:59, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete per most of the above. Puppy Mill 03:36, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.