Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Shanghainese and Lower Yangtze people in Hong Kong


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep (of a slightly weak nature, just about verging into no consensus.) Daniel (talk) 14:01, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

List of Shanghainese and Lower Yangtze people in Hong Kong

 * – ( View AfD View log )

This article by a single editor (Prisencolin) seems to have been compiled in an attempt to circumvent a current Categories for discussion/Log/2021 February 5, recreating the previous Categories for discussion/Log/2021 January 20. Many/most of those listed were not born in Shanghai, they were born in Hong Kong or in Canada. We have long-standing restrictions on categorizing people by ethnicity or heritage or residence, and do not categorize based upon the name of a city or regional residence of an ancestor. Many/most of these are not even of pre-1900s Wu Chinese language. There is an extant WP:ANI on Prisencolin.
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 21:05, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 21:11, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Hong Kong-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 21:11, 13 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep All of those categorization-based objections are just that. They are for categories, not standalone lists. There is no intent to "circumvent" deletion discussions because not only did I mention this list exists in said discussions, but it was actually encouraged by other editors, albeit as a section in Shanghainese people in Hong Kong. --Prisencolin (talk) 06:48, 14 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Categories for discussion/Log/2021 February 5, for which this was the list article, has been closed delete.
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2021 February 5, for which this was the main article, has been closed delete.
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 11:48, 15 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment. The nom inappropriately suggests this list was created in bad faith. There’s no such thing as “circumventing” a CFD in article space, because not only are the deletion processes separate but the standards for categories are more stringent than lists. The nom also should not have mentioned the ANI which as far as I can tell has no relevance here. That said, deletion discussions for related content are certainly relevant to consider, just not determinative. postdlf (talk) 17:43, 15 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Strong keep. Valid item in the study of the history, sociocultural perspectives and demographics of this territory. 1.64.46.31 (talk) 14:15, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep - the rationale applies to categories, not lists, so no rationale for delete has been given. 'Listify' is an option in cfd as an alternative to 'delete': see eg Categories_for_discussion/Working/Manual. WP:CLN addresses the matter. Oculi (talk) 22:26, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Weak Keep. The list need citations and actual connection instead of merely descent. For example, Run Run Shaw has company in Shanghai before 1949. Charles K. Kao was educated in Shanghai French Concession (which has a documentary by RTHK that invited Kao to visit Shanghai and re-visit school and places of his childhood). Tung Chao-yung has company in Shanghai before 1949 and moving his business empire to HK afterwards. However, for Tung Chee-hwa, unless there is some coverage on his Shanghai childhood, i don't see any real merit but Listcruft to include Tung Chee-hwa, since unsourced/routine coverage are not notable. Matthew hk (talk) 00:47, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Tung Chee-hwa has been frequently referred to as "Shanghainese" in sources like . Also, do be aware that "Shanghainese" in this context refers to the greater Lower Yangtze (Jiangnan) region. Please see the associated article for a list of citations for this definition.--Prisencolin (talk) 09:39, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanamonde (Talk) 23:32, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: Please note that "the article was created by a single editor" is listed as one of the arguments to avoid in deletion discussions (WP:INVOLVE). Otherwise, I have no real stance on these lists of people either way, and this is neither an argument to keep nor delete. Gnomingstuff (talk) 02:45, 22 February 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.