Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of The Andy Griffith Show guest stars


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. So Why  15:41, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

List of The Andy Griffith Show guest stars

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Unsourced list of guest stars on television program. Lists mostly single appearances of characters. Notes list what actor portraying character is later known for, unrelated to appearance on The Andy Griffith Show.

There's no debate that actors with wikilinks meet WP:N and that The Andy Griffith Show was a popular television show. But there are no sources about the topic of The Andy Griffith Show guest stars treated as a whole, and list article fails WP:TVCAST and WP:LISTCRUFT. The more significant guest/recurring stars are listed in List of The Andy Griffith Show characters. AldezD (talk) 12:07, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  GameInfirmary   Talk  16:46, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions.  GameInfirmary   Talk  16:46, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions.  GameInfirmary   Talk  16:46, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete per nom. . Vorbee (talk) 17:45, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * The nominator's boilerplate nomination is incorrect about the content; only a mere few entries are unsourced. The rest list specific episodes. postdlf (talk) 02:18, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment—Sourcing isn't the core issue. This content fails fails WP:TVCAST and WP:LISTCRUFT. A list of single episode guest stars of a television show is not content that meets criteria guidelines. AldezD (talk) 15:07, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * LISTCRUFT is essentially an "I don't like this list and want an acronym to cite" essay, so that's really uninteresting to me. If you're using it as a proxy for an actual consensus-supported guideline or policy, you should just cite that policy. And could you be specific regarding what part of WP:TVCAST you are applying, and in what way that MOS guideline establishes relevant inclusion criteria that this list fails? postdlf (talk) 15:23, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * "Not every fictional character ever created deserves to be listed". "A cast member or character appearing in more than one episode, or in two or more consecutive episodes, does not necessarily mean that character has a 'recurring' role." These are not recurring characters. They are one-episode characters, and do not belong in a separate article list. A list of guest stars does not meet WP:N. AldezD (talk) 16:26, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * None of that says "never list guest stars", nor "only main and recurring roles may be listed". Further, this list is limited to guest stars who have their own articles. Editors may ultimately decide that this is an unnecessary level of detail for this particular show, or that having guest starred in this series may not be significant enough as a basis for an index of notable actors, but your legalistic approach, and your copied and pasted rationales (apparently applied based on nothing more than the type of list rather than a case-by-case evaluation of the content per WP:BEFORE) is completely off-base here. You claim above that there are "no sources about the topic of The Andy Griffith Show guest stars treated as a whole", but are you basing this purely based on the state of the article, or have you actually consulted any of the many books about this series to see if they discuss and/or list significant guest stars? postdlf (talk) 17:45, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Redditaddict69 16:07, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep this is a fairly prominent TV show, with several books about it. Those books discuss guest stars in the context of episode guides, etc.  Articles such as List of The Simpsons guest stars (seasons 1–20) (or others in Category:Lists of guest appearances in television) suggest this is not a WP:NOT violation. power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 02:45, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in reliable sources. The subject passes Notability, which says, "One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; notable list topics are appropriate for a stand-alone list." I will show below that "The Andy Griffith Show guest stars" has been treated as a "a group or set by independent reliable sources". Sources   The book provides a list of guest stars:<li>Jackie Joseph—Ramona Ankrum</li><li>Frank Sutton—Sgt. Carter</li><li>Charles P. Thompson—Asa Breeney</li><li>Enid Markey—Mrs. Mendelbright</li><li>Will Wright, Tol Avery, and Jason Johnson—Ben Weaver</li><li>Olan Soule—John Masters</li><li>Josie Lloyd—Lydia Crosswaith</li><li>Barbara Perry—Flossie, Mary Lee, Lavinia, and Doris Williams</li><li>Norman Leavitt (it:Norman Leavitt), Trevor Bardette, and Cliff Norton—Wally</li><li>Jane Dulo—Escaped convict Sally</li><li>Barbara Eden—Ellen Brown</li><li>Mary Grace Canfield—Mary Grace Gossage</li><li>Joyce Van Patten—Laura Hollander</li><li>Robert Cornthwaite—Inspector Somerset</li><li>Alan Oppenheimer—Mr. Ruskin, the Interpreter</li><li>R. G. Armstrong—Farmer Flint</li><li>Elaine Joyce—Mavis Neff</li><li>The Country Boys (Roland White, LeRoy McNees, Clarence White, Eric White, and Billy Ray Latham)—Local musicians</li><li>Joel Redlin—Ferdie</li><li>Alvy Moore—Kitchenwares salesman</li><li>Dave Ketchum—Fred Michaels, Harry Walker</li><li>George Spence—Frank the fiancé</li><li>Brad (Joe Bolleter) Olson—Esquire Club member John Danby</li></ol></li> <li> The book notes: "There are 249 episodes (159 in black and white; 90 in color) of 'The Andy Griffith Show.' The following is a list, with brief plot summaries, of all the episodes. The order in which the episodes are listed is the order in which they were filmed and also the order in which they are most commonly aired in syndication. (The order in which the episodes were originally broadcast is slightly different.) Guest stars and prominent actors are also listed, along with the writers of the episodes." The book notes this information about guest stars:<ol><li>In "Episode 8: A Feud Is a Feud", Arthur Hunnicutt and Chubby Johnson are guest stars.</li><li>In "Episode 36: Barney on the Rebound", Jackie Coogan is a guest star.</li><li>In "Episode 70: The Cow Thief", Malcolm Atterbury and Ralph Bell are guest stars.</li><li>In "Episode 74: Convicts-at-Large", Reta Shaw, Jane Dulo, and Jean Carson are guest stars.</li><li>In "Episode 107: Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C.", Frank Sutton is the guest star.</li><li>In "Episode 144: Goober Takes a Car Apart", Larry Hovis is the guest star.</li><li>In "Episode 167: Taylors in Hollywood", Gavin MacLeod and Hayden Rorke are the guest stars.</li><li>In "Episode 187: The Foster Lady", Ronnie Schell and Robert Emhardt are the guest stars.</li><li>In "Episode 208: The Statue", Dal McKennon is the guest star.</li><li>In "Episode 225: Opie Steps Up in Class", Joyce Van Patten is the guest star.</li><li>In "Episode 245: Emmett's Anniversary", Ronnie Schell is the guest star.</li></ol></li> <li> The book discusses each episode in the series and the cast members (including guest cast) involved in each episode.</li> <li> The article notes: "Guest stars included Jackie Coogan (Uncle Fester, 'The Addams Family'); Buddy Ebsen ('Beverly Hillbillies' and 'Barnaby Jones'); Alan Hale Jr. (the skipper on 'Gilligan's Island'); Bill Bixby ('The Incredible Hulk' and 'My Favorite Martian'), Don Rickles; Bob Denver ('Gilligan's Island'); Teri Garr; Jamie Farr ('MASH'); Howard Hesseman ('WKRP in Cincinnati'); Rob Reiner ('All in the Family'); and Jack Nicholson."</li> <li> The article notes: "The small, fictional town of Mayberry, N.C., lives on in the Verona Joyner Langford North Carolina Collection at Joyner Library. The television series that was set in this picturesque town, 'The Andy Griffith Show,' debuted on Oct. 3, 1960, and ran for eight seasons. Several books in the collection give detailed summaries of all 249 episodes that aired, along with short biographies of the cast members and various guest stars who passed through Mayberry, including Jack Nicholson, Bill Bixby, and Barbara Eden." The article discusses the books The Andy Griffith Show Book by Ken Beck and Jim Clark, The Definitive Andy Griffith Show Reference by Dale Robinson and David Fernandes, and Mayberry 101: Behind The Scenes of a TV Classic by Neal Brower.</li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow the subject to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 08:07, 7 September 2018 (UTC)</li></ul>
 * Keep as the topic of the list has significant coverage in multiple reliable sources as shown above so that it passes WP:NLIST and as the topic is discussed in reliable sources it is not listcruft as Wikipedia determines it, regards Atlantic306 (talk) 17:39, 9 September 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.