Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy characters (3rd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy. Reading over this, there are plenty of bad arguments. I would like to remind people that WP:TNT does not advance an argument for deletion and WP:MUSTBESOURCES is considered to be a bad argument. Keeping that in mind, the people advocating for merging have the numerical and policy-based edge. Guerillero Parlez Moi 10:12, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

List of The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy characters
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

This has twice been nominated for deletion (with one by yours truly). I read through the past nominations before posting this. I still don't think this is worthy of its own article. Maybe on a fan site, maybe on a blog, but not WP.

The characters listed here do not hold up to the notability guidelines set by WP. A laundry list of supporting or recurring characters on here have no real content in their respective subsections other than in-universe information (i.e. physical descriptions and episode plot mentions). The list is cluttered with speculative summaries and unconventional aliases for the characters (Irwin Dracula? A main character?). There are two references cited, one being a blog and the other a page in a book with a brief mention of the show.

I concede that Billy, Mandy, and Grim are notable and deserve inclusion on WP, but that doesn't justify a separate character list when descriptions in the main series article would suffice. I'm not against including some characters other than the main three in the series article, but this list is overkill.

This list, detailed as it may be, is a heap of fancruft and should be merged with the main series article. If I'm on the Internet looking for this much detail, I'll visit a fan site. — Paper Luigi  T • C 02:47, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:TNT if nothing else. This is a massive blob of fancruft with little to no out-of-universe notability asserted. No sources could possibly exist. Mentioning the main characters in the main article should be enough. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 03:44, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Television, Comics and animation,  and Lists. –– FormalDude   talk  07:46, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep and cleanup as desired. A list of not individually notable elements is explicitly enumerated under WP:CSC, and fictional characters lists exist for this purpose since the WP:POKEMON wars, regardless of whether the nom is familiar or not. No issue with the list has been identified that can't be addressed by regular editing (i.e., pare down excessive info), and nom grants the notability of the fictional franchise, so that's not even on the table. Jclemens (talk) 23:23, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
 * In regards to your comment, I'd like to reference an older XfD for a similar character list that also happened to be a CN series. Quoting another editor, "Any content of value can be added to the main article". —  Paper Luigi  T • C 02:54, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Character lists are sometimes kept and sometimes deleted, based on the random people that show up to comment.  D r e a m Focus  03:17, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * @Dream Focus That randomness is unfortunate. Perhaps we need a wide RfC on the Notability (character lists). The tits for tats at AfD are amusing, but frankly, not very professional. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 10:07, 22 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Keep A valid spinout list. Just like we have lists of episodes, we also have character lists.  If its too long to fit in the main article, you make a side list for it.   D r e a m Focus  03:18, 22 June 2022 (UTC);B
 * Delete Fails WP:NLIST. Massively unsourced and effectively a random block/list of unstructured content that doesn't satisfy WP:V. It is effectively fancruft and is better served somehwhere else on the internet.   scope_creep Talk  08:29, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * It doesn't fail V unless you've tried to source it and failed. Remember, V can be met by primary sources... they just don't count for notability. Jclemens (talk) 17:07, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge short summary then redirect to The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy. This is mostly unreferenced WP:FANCRUFT. But some list of characters, short, does, arguably, belong in the plot description for each work of fiction. No need to spin it off, WP:NLIST is no met outside other plot summaries (also, see MOS:POPCULTURE). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 10:06, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * MOS means manual of style. It references how things are represented, not what is represented, and is a categorically inappropriate argument in any deletion discussion, because style never determines content. Rather, policies determine content, style guides determine presentation of that content. Jclemens (talk) 17:09, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep: Per arguments made by and . This was a popular show, so I would be shocked if there weren't at least a few sources discussing some of the show's characters, particularly the lead characters. MoonJet (talk) 16:07, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge to The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy. I don't see anything to justify the massive detailed coverage of any of these characters in the sources, a Tumblr post and one sentence in a book. If anybody can find in depth sources discussing the characters as a group or individually then maybe some it could be kept but when I looked I couldn't find anything. A short list of characters would be suited in the main article. Cakelot1 (talk) 12:43, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge There's no justification for the list of characters being notable on their own, it doesn't meet NLIST, and The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy doesn't have SIZE issues that would require a spinout article, either. Like Cakelot above, I couldn't find anything that specifically and in-depth was covering the characters versus the show as a whole (which is what was brought up at previous AfDs.)  Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 18:04, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment It is self-published with no encyclopedic analysis, backed up by zero secondary sources and with no historical value. It like a big social media post, self-published and is completely anathema to Wikipedia 5P.    scope_creep Talk  19:33, 23 June 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.