Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of The Tribe characters


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Tone 18:59, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

List of The Tribe characters

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This is a character list with a fan site level of trivia, but with no reliable secondary sources. The only sources given are the show itself and an actual fan site. The show ended 16 years ago, so I don't think any new sources will surface.&#32;-- Fyrael (talk) 13:52, 7 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Comment – While there's no question that all of The Tribe articles are a mess right now (they all date to early in Wikiepedia's history, before many of our MOS had evolved to the current forms) – e.g. all of these articles are "over-written" and WP:OR-y – I'm not sure WP:NUKEANDPAVE is the right way forward here... It's also unclear to me what sourcing might be available for this show – for example, I've never really looked to see if any books about the series have been published, so this situation may not be as bad as it appears... If this does end up being deleted, I'll probably request that it be WP:REFUNDed to my userspace, as the this page contains useful info, even if it's too much in its current form. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 14:04, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I'd fully support finding an appropriate way for whatever information can be reliably sourced to be included somewhere on the wiki. As I put on the article talk page, I do hate seeing honest work disappear. I'm not sure I'm understanding what you said about sources possibly not being available though. It sort of sounds like you're suggesting that it's ok for information to have been included without good sourcing because there's no sources that cover it, but I'm guessing I misunderstood. Could you clarify?&#32;-- Fyrael (talk) 14:31, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing that when the show was airing, books were published on the subject. They probably would qualify as "fandom books". But I suspect they exist, and they could possibly be used to source character info. That's what I was getting at. (It's basically a WP:NEXIST argument.) But I've never really looked into it... I've only gotten to The Tribe articles recently, as I'm currently watching through the first three seasons, so I'm hoping to improve all of the articles as I go. (List of The Tribe seasons is another problematic article that either needs to be heavily rewritten, or deleted as per WP:NUKEANDPAVE...) But List of The Tribe characters is definitely problematic in its current form, variously violating WP:TVCAST (e.g. by listing cast alphabetically, rather than in order of crediting/appearance; including "episode counts", etc.). --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:12, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
 * FTR, the more I think about this, the more I'm leaning "keep". While the article is problematic, and needs substantial trimming and rewriting/reformatting – and it's unlikely to ever get where List of Smallville characters is – it's also not that far away from getting to something approximating acceptable (at least in MOS:TV terms). (The biggest issue will be finding non-Primary source sourcing for it...) But I don't think deletion is the best course of action here... Still, I'll refrain from voting for the time being. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:55, 8 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Formally going keep on this one – I don't think WP:NUKEANDPAVE is the answer here. Instead, what is needed is some liberal (copy-)editing, especially with an eye towards following the current WP:TVCAST – e.g. proper list ordering, removing episode counts and most plot-specific details, etc. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 03:24, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 06:18, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 06:18, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 06:18, 8 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete - Character lists are not inherently necessary article splits. This one currently serves no purpose other than a collection of unnecessary PLOT details. There is no reason the main article cannot summarize the most important characters in brief detail, especially where a very large chunk of the characters seem inconsequential going by the lack of detail in their summaries. TTN (talk) 11:02, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
 * That frankly displays an ignorance about the kind of show this is. As essentially a "soap opera", with dozens of "main" characters over five seasons, this is exactly the kind of series where a separate list of characters article makes sense. It would in fact be difficult to summarize character details at the main TV series article in this case, and it's probably better to leave a simple 'Cast' list there, while reserving more detailed character summaries for a separate list of characters article. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 12:26, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Complexity of in-universe fiction does not necessitate the coverage of all of it. This is a general encyclopedia. TTN (talk) 12:39, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
 * My point is that trying to cover character summaries at the main TV series will unbalance it. Again, this is exactly the kind of series where a separate list of characters article actually makes sense. The fact that the current version is overly-detailed and over-written doesn't negate the idea that the character info should be covered in a standalone article. That's why my point is that WP:NUKEANDPAVE likely doesn't apply here – I think this article can be saved with simply editing it. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:22, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Then we simply need to adjust the coverage relative to the weight the section needs in the article. People put too much weight on characters, so there is this culture of thinking character articles are absolutely necessary. Episode lists or season summaries should cover the bulk of the context necessary, while character summaries exist to contextualize them. TTN (talk) 13:43, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
 * This is actually the bigger issue with The Tribe suite of articles – List of tribes from The Tribe needs to be deleted, and possibly so does List of The Tribe seasons (I'm not sure that a List of episodes article would be fruitful in this case of this series either). In fact, of the three subsidiary articles, the best case can be made to keep this List of characters article. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:33, 9 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete- this is badly sourced fancruft, written mostly in an in-universe plot summary style. Just because a TV show has lots of minor characters that come and go doesn't mean we need to abandon common sense editing to accommodate them. This would be more suitable for a Wikia. Reyk YO! 10:07, 14 October 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.