Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Trivia about Hungarian producer Gabriel Pascal


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the debate was merge and delete. --Ezeu 22:36, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

List of Trivia about Hungarian producer Gabriel Pascal
I have nominated this article because of the use of the word "trivia", which is defined by wiktionary as insignificant trifles of little importance, especially items of unimportant information. This puts the article in direct conflict with my understanding of the following Wikipedia guidelines:


 * 1) Articles title assumes that the information therin is trivial, violating NPOV
 * 2) If we are to assume that the articles information is indeed trivial then it is violating Imporance.
 * 3) Finally being that a trivia list is inherintly a list of random facts, this article is in violation of What Wikipedia is not.

Some or all of the information in this artile may be good however, it should be integrated into proper places within established articles. For advice on how this may be accomplished you might want to look at: Trivia and User:GK/On adding trivia to the main body of an article. The_stuart 17:48, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete and merge any verifiable info, if necessary, into Gabriel Pascal. PJM 18:18, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge and delete per nom. Caveat lector 19:07, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I created the page in question, and would suggest deleting rather than merging. These points are interesting and fun to know, but are not really appropriate for a proper encyclopedic article. They do not add any important information to Pascal's life. They are just odd "fun facts" left over from spending a long time researching him for the main article. I wouldn't suggest merging them with the main article because it will degrade the quality and sobriety of that article. So my vote is for deletion if it is not appropriate for List of trivia lists under Wikipedia rules. Chris 21:07, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep - what's with all this hatred for trivia? Like the author says we shouldn't be merging tons of trivia back in main articles. --MarsRover 04:49, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge is the best option as most of this information should be in the article. It provides valuable insights into Pascal's life, career and character. It lends more colour. That is not a bad thing. Also the article is curiously deficient in parts. We have the information about the will and the court battle, but the outcome is separated out into the "trivia" article. That doesn't make sense. I don't regard most of this information as trivial. To leave them out is virtually censoring the main article and not providing a full rounded picture. Tyrenius 23:21, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Note that the main article links to the trivia list under "See also," so nothing is lost by keeping it separate. While some might merge nicely (like his missing son and his earlier film career), some of the odder things in the trivia list just don't seem to warrant Encycopedic mention, such as his peculiar nicknames by his guru or that he was naked when he got into movies and when he met Shaw. Just a thought to consider. Maybe this could be solved by merging some and deleting the rest. People can always read the biographies for the other material. Chris 01:03, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I disagree! Peculiar nicknames by guru give an insight into what was going on behind the public image, and the naked bit too, especially with Shaw. It fleshes out (excuse pun - not intended, honest) the facts. Tyrenius 01:41, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I have started to try to merge some of the material into the main article. I hope it doesn't make the article too informal. Chris 14:12, 27 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete - Almost all the material has now been merged into the main article, and the part about David Lean co-directing "Major Barbara" has been moved to Wiki's David Lean article. I still haven't figured out how to explain how Margaret Scott paid his debts to his mistress, his last option payment on "My Fair Lady," and his hospital bill on his death-bed -- later to be repaid from the estate (actually her daughter was repaid from the estate as Margaret either jumped or fell out of a window to her death in NY before the settlement came through), and various other tid-bits such as that he didn't drink, but smoked cigars profusely to the point where Shaw became alarmed. Perhaps these are truly trivial in the sense that they are unimportant. I may still see if they can also be included in a coherent way. I will wait till the end of the 5 day arbitration in case there are more votes to keep the Trivia page. I don't know how to delete it, so I will leave that to an administrator. Chris 16:24, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I have now moved everything over to the main article. If anyone wants to remove this trivia entry, be my guest. I don't know how to do it. I think the inclusions actually improved the article and I am greatful for all the input and support. I also want to add that I am very proud of the Gabriel Pascal Wikipedia article now as it is the only article about Pascal over one paragraph long on the entire World Wide Web and all facts are from quality published sources. Chris 21:54, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi Chris I'd like to congratulate you on the article, which I think is a credit to Wikipedia, and thanks for taking up the suggestion to incorporate what was on the "trivia" page into the main page to provide a "one stop" on him. Tyrenius 00:52, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete (changed from merge, above) now that the article editor Chris has moved the info into the main article. I have blanked the page, now the information is a duplicate.Tyrenius 00:52, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Tyrenius, I think this all worked out for the best. I also deleted the link from List of Trivia Lists on Wikipedia. Chris 00:58, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.