Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of UK out of town shopping centres


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was No consensus to delete, rename to more accurate title recommended. Until ( 1 == 2 )  15:48, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

List of UK out of town shopping centres

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WP:NOT, WP:NOT Will (talk) 17:25, 30 July 2007 (UTC) *Delete: I think yet another list article isnt the right way forward. We already haveList of shopping centres in the United Kingdom. I think List of shopping centres in the United Kingdom could also, perhaps also do with a little bit of trimming down. How many of the centres mentioned are truely notable? Perhaps one way to go would be to divide off the shopping centres with over say 1m sq ft of retail floor space in List of shopping centres in the United Kingdom into their own section within that article. Pit-yacker 21:23, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete, non-notable directory. Realkyhick 18:11, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong keep A few facts, which few non-British people will be aware of. There are only about eight out of town enclosed shopping centres in the UK (as opposed to open air retail parks, which do not count as shopping centres in British English, even though they do in American English) - all other British shopping centres are in town and city centres - and under current policy, no more will be built. All of them are notable. A list of them would be useful, as would a discussion of the context in which they are built, and why the were halted. That is what this article is getting at, though it is not quite there. Hawkestone 19:45, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I have added two more, so if I am right about there being eight, only one is missing. It is probably in the Midlands. Hawkestone 19:56, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Westfield Merry Hill? However, I would have though Braehead would qualify as well? Pit-yacker 21:26, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I've added both. It must have been eight in England plus one in Scotland. Hawkestone 10:55, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep The title is mis-leading, as out of town for some people will mean not in the town/city at all. The meaning of the word Town can mean either Town Center or the whole city in itself. It mis-lead me at first. I'm from Sheffield and nobody says Meadowhall is out of town. Perhaps it needs re-naming. J acќя М  ¿Qué?  19:52, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The correct title would perhaps be Regional shopping centres in the United Kingdom, as I believe that is what they were referred to when built. However that is also open to misinterpretation, as the largest city centre shopping centres also attract people from a wide region. Hawkestone 19:57, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, i nearly put Delete due to the fact Meadowhall isn't out of town- in Sheffield speak anyway. The title i'd suggest is something along the lines Hawkestone previously suggested, but Regional? Again, this would be mis-leading as the article is about Shopping Centers which are out of the city center. J acќя М  ¿Qué?  (My account is playing up, whenever i click edit it is asking me to save it >.<)
 * Delete, listcruft. GreenJoe 20:26, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The fact that the current, ill-chosen title includes the word list should not be held against the article. Please judge the topic, not the title. Hawkestone 10:45, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * No, that misses the point. The out of town regional centres are quite different from large city centre shopping centres. They represent one of the most significant stages in the history of retailing in the United Kingdom. They are a topic in there own right. There should be a separate article so that people will understand that they are a discrete topic. Bunging everything together and then imposing irrelevant subdivisions on arbitrary criteria that show a lack of understanding of the topic is the last thing we should be doing. Hawkestone 10:48, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge to List of shopping centres in the United Kingdom if there's anything worth salvaging, otherwise Delete. Other shopping centres, such as the McArthur Glen Designer Outlets chain are as much out-of-town as the bigger ones noted under this article, so even the premise of "there's only eight" is wrong to start with. - fchd 05:48, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * No, it is absolutely right. The McArthur Glen Designer Outlets chain is not the same sort of thing at all. I'm no expert on retailing, but I know for a fact that the group covered in this article is well-defined, and marks a major stage in UK retail history, which was subject to specific government policies. I see no evidence at all that anyone voting delete has any knowledge of British retail history. All the deletion arguments are knee-jerk and generic, based on a lack of understanding of what this article is really about. It's a pity that the original writer wasn't a subject expert either, but that's wikipedia. It would be a travesty of systemic bias to lose an article on a major social and economic trend just because Wikipedia doesn't attract many people who have a good knowledge of business and economic issues (they're all too busy working), while keeping all the pop-culture trivia due to the nature of the user base. I don't read business books, or urban and economic geography texts, but this subject must have been discusses extensively and in isolation in serious publications. I read an article or two about it myself in the serious media, but that was years ago.Hawkestone 10:50, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Under what criteria? The McArthur Glen outlets, etc. are just as much, if not more so, "Out of town shopping centres". How, under any justification, is Brent Cross or the Metro Centre "Out of Town"? McArthur Glen Bridgend for instance, is out of town, it is a shopping centre, and it is enclosed and not a retail park. There may be a sensible article detailing the history and context of large shopping centres, but a) this isn't it, and b) the criteria would have to be severely re-defined. There isn't any !voting based on British retail history because there's virtually no reference to the history in either the title of the article, or the content. - fchd 21:11, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletions.   --Gavin Collins 08:23, 31 July 2007 (UTC)--
 * Keep There is a legitimate topic here, the article just needs to move up a level. I will add an "expert needed" tag. Abberley2 12:14, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep per Hawkestone. LukeHoC 23:44, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete on grounds of WP:POV fork from List of shopping centres in the United Kingdom highlighted by Pit-yacker . The fact that Brent Cross is classed as out of town when it is in situated in Greater London suggests that this article should be deleted on grounds of original research. --Gavin Collins 20:56, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * In British retailing "Out of town" means "Away from the town centre shopping district". It has nothing to do with whether or not the location is in a built up area. RegRCN 00:09, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep The arguments put forward for deletion all seem to be based on ignorance of the structure and terminology of the retail industry. Isn't Wikipedia supposed to dispel ignorance? This group of centres, whatever one wants to call them, certainly exists, has been discussed extensively in serious media as a discrete topic, and occupies a unique place in British retail history.RegRCN 00:09, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep but rename to Out of Town Shopping Centres in UK. Meadowhall is correctly included - while it is in the city of Sheffield, it is not in the city centre.  "Out of Town" should be construed as "Out of Town Centre".  The article is more than a list, and is largely complete.  Peterkingiron 00:20, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename per Peterkingiron. I think this direction sounds much more useful than another list of article.  Only one last issue, the traditional wisdom is that no more such centres are to be built.  However, where do centres such as Westfield London and Westfield Stratford City come under this definition?  As I understand these are both more or less creating new shopping areas that are away from established shopping areas. Pit-yacker 00:37, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.