Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Ukrainian Nobel laureates


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Doczilla @SUPERHEROLOGIST 19:20, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

List of Ukrainian Nobel laureates

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

There are no references, and for a good reason: These Nobel Prizes, except for the one given today, are given to individuals who were not Ukrainian citizens, and never are considered as Ukrainian Nobel prizes outside Ukraine. Thus the list must be shortened to one entry. List of one entry is not a list. Ymblanter (talk) 11:23, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ukraine-related deletion discussions. Ymblanter (talk) 11:23, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 11:24, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The article has been redone to List of Ukrainian Nobel laureates and nominees with nine nomenees added. More references added.--Dƶoxar (talk) 12:33, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * There are still good reasons we do not have such articles for any other country. Ymblanter (talk) 12:36, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * How about Burmese or Welsh?--Dƶoxar (talk) 12:38, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Need to be nominated for deletion I guess. Ymblanter (talk) 12:39, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The list provides a useful information with all necessary references, structured well.--Dƶoxar (talk) 13:07, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Not really. First, listing people who are not Ukrainian is cultural appropriation and misleading. Second, nominations are not made public until after 50 years of nominations. I was myself approached several times to nominate candidates, and every time the first message was that I am not allowed to disclose any details about this, printed in red color. Thus, info on the nominations is just random and does not represent anything. Ymblanter (talk) 13:48, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 1. "People who are not Ukrainian" are listed separately with clear explanation of what is their connection to Ukraine. There is no statement they are Ukrainians and you can't call it "cultural appropriation". 2. As scientists from Ukraine made a great influence on the science, it is a matter of interest how they are represented by Nobel prize. Non-existance of the Ukrainian state for the most of 20th century is not a reason to ignore it.--Dƶoxar (talk) 14:30, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Note "claimed by nominators" added for clarity.--Dƶoxar (talk) 14:34, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Citizenship for Ukrainian-born laureates added.--Dƶoxar (talk) 14:45, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Look, for example, Charpak was born in Poland and then immigrated to France with his family to avoid pogroms instigated by Ukrainians. He did not speak Ukrainian, he never said he is Ukrainian. By all definitions he is not. His article defines him as Polish-born French which is absolyutely correct. Now, Ukraine wants to appropriate him because in all of the existence of Ukraine they did not manage to produce a single Nobel Prize winner in physics. Wikipedia is not the venue to ptromote this. Ymblanter (talk) 15:40, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Why do you call it "appropriate"? Again: the article doesn't state persons in the lists are Ukrainians. It is called to answer the question who of Nobel prize laureates and nominees were related to Ukraine. Ales Bialiatski is imprisoned by Belarusian government but still is related to Belarus. The similar situation was with Liu Xiaobo. Someone's attitude to the place of his origin doesn't cancel his relation to it.--Dƶoxar (talk) 16:37, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Also in the article header it's made clear: "there were several laureates and nominees who were born or worked in Ukraine before it gained independence in 1991, most of them are not considered to be Ukrainian representatives".--Dƶoxar (talk) 16:39, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * This seems to me to be an unanswerable question. A list, in and of itself, is unlikely to have references showing it is notable. And yet clearly there are lots of lists of different things on WP. So I can only judge on what seems useful to me, and I think a list of individuals who were born or worked in Ukraine and who got a Nobel is worth keeping. The actual content of such a page is a different debate. JMWt (talk) 15:13, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 19:53, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. Essentially fails WP:No Original Research as WP:SYNTH; and therefore fails WP:NLIST. At issue here is a matter of identity. When we say Ukranian do we mean nationality or ethnicity? Most of the people on this list were born or working in the Soviet Union in what is now geographically the Ukraine; and while they may or may not have been Ukranian in terms of ethnicity/culture they were not Ukranian in terms of nationality. Several of the people on this list are not identified as Ukranian within their biographies. In short, it's a bit of a tangle to slap a label of Ukranian without identifying what is really meant by the term. Further, no sources that I can tell actually address this partuicalar group as a list. It's hodge podge of original conclusions slapped together.4meter4 (talk) 15:48, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 1. I guess the matter of identity should be clear from the article header: persons from Ukraine. As the Nobel prize is older than modern Ukrainian state this obviously means couple of things. So persons with Ukrainian citizenship are listed in the "classical" way and people who are clearly related to Ukraine but were not Ukrainian citizens are listed separately. 2. The list is mostly based on the information from the Nobel prize website (where "Ukraine" is even mentioned in laureates biographies, e.g. Mechnikov, Agnon, Waksman, Hofman, Alexievich). Claimed nominees are an exception, but again: the topic is a matter of interest, and if there are open statements by famous people published by trusted sources it is worth to be mentioned. --Dƶoxar (talk) 17:47, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT responses aren't helpful. Again, many of these people aren't "from the Ukraine" due to the political history of that nation which wasn't established until after many of these people won the Nobel. Further, the sources don't identify them as Ukrainian, so again this is original research. We need sources that actually identify these people as Ukrainian and as Nobel winners or nominees in the same source. Otherwise, this is an original topic that fails WP:NLIST and WP:OR.4meter4 (talk) 16:39, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Weak delete - not sure what to make of it, there is little bit of everything here, but only one actual Ukrainian laureate.-- ౪ Santa ౪ 99°  08:11, 17 October 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.