Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of avant-garde metal musical groups


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was delete. --Core desat 01:18, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

List of avant-garde metal musical groups

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Permanently incomplete list that is inherently subjective (as made clear in the preamble and on talk page), and fails WP:NOT.  Dei z  talk 04:59, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Keep No reason to delete that article. We have incomplete and subjective band lists like list of death metal bands or list of nu metal musical groups. If you want to delete those too... Zouavman Le Zouave (Talk to me!) 07:07, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Define avant-garde, then find reliable sources that define these bands as avant-garde. Good luck. Oh, and the policy concern that this is a mere list of internal links? "We have A, so keep B" is not, and has never been, the basis for a compelling AfD opinion.  Dei z  talk 09:07, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Delete Whole concept screams POV. A sub-genre, of a sub-genre. Completely subjective. Not *Notable.

Delete: Per nom. Sounds like many of those other lists should go too, in general there are way to many lists like this around the wiki. IvoShandor 10:02, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Delete Let's rid of the non notable, metal related tripe on Wikipedia (PS - before anyone accuses me of hating metal I have two Metal related FAs to my name and interview Metal bands, so no I'm not biased in my delete). LuciferMorgan 11:01, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Delete It would be impossible to agree the inclusion criteria for something as nebulously defined so therefore this is listcruft. A1octopus 12:30, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Inclusion criteria are ambiguous (and the article even admits this).  Violates WP:NOT.  Ark yan  &#149; (talk) 15:01, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Keep practically all bands in the list have been called avant-garde metal in many sources (Fantômas, Pan.Thy.Monium, Peccatum, Kayo Dot, maudlin of the Well). It's not a genre with many bands, but it certainly is a notable genre. Almost 40000 hits (without wikipedia & answers.com) on google. 400+ hits on Encyclopaedia Metallum. The tag is used a lot on last.fm. And I don't see how it fails WP:NOT. The genre may be hard to define, but it's as subjective as any other genre in music. --Emmaneul 16:06, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The :NOT concern is that WP doesn't host mere lists of internal links.  Dei z  talk 03:32, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * then all 'list of x' should go.Emmaneul 10:34, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. If this list is deleted, then it shall be the same for all other lists, it's only fair and logical. Zouavman Le Zouave (Talk to me!) 10:28, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Check out WP:FL and see what a good list looks like. List of dinosaurs for example. Proposing to delete all lists from Wikipedia, or in any way inferring that the deletion of this list would logically require such a thing be done, is ridiculous. Lists are not disambiguation pages, they require context and information - or, to put it another way, they should be encyclopedic.  Dei z  talk 10:56, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Check out these lists, your criteria for deleting lists apply to practically all 'list of bands of genre x'.
 * List of alternative metal artists


 * List of black metal bands


 * List of Christian metal bands


 * List of death metal bands


 * List of doom metal bands


 * List of folk metal bands


 * List of glam metal bands


 * List of gothic metal bands


 * List of heavy metal bands


 * List of NWOBHM artists


 * List of power metal bands


 * List of progressive metal artists


 * List of rapcore artists


 * List of Scandinavian death metal bands


 * List of speed metal bands


 * List of thrash metal bands


 * Emmaneul 15:36, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * They are most certainly not "my" criteria, they form part of WP:NOT, a core policy of Wikipedia. That many articles do not satisfy content policies should come as no surprise to anyone. However, this debate is about the article named at the top of the page, and no other. If you're suggesting that we should keep non-conforming articles simply because we haven't deleted every other non-conforming article first, you're ignoring this policy. If you're making a point, you can stop now.  Dei z  talk 05:33, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Please point out why the article fails WP:NOT. Like I said earlier in this article, I don't see how it fails. Therefore I feel your interpretation of WP:NOT is not correct. The kind of "List of genre x" lists mentioned above are conform WP:LISTS and Lists (stand-alone lists). Emmaneul 11:34, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * List the most notable artists in Avant-garde metal, and then delete this article. List of progressive metal artists may be a better place for the bands listed in this article.  (Assuming I don't get flame mail from people who say I don't know the difference between progressive metal and avant-garde metal.)  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 16:50, 16 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete subjective; avant-garde changes over time. Carlossuarez46 21:10, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete avant-garde is inherently weasely. --Infrangible 03:07, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment What you want to erase the avant-garde article now?!? Zouavman Le Zouave (Talk to me!) 10:24, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The well referenced a-g article discusses many things including the flexibility and looseness of the term.. an unverified, bare list of metal bands who have may been referred to as a-g is hardly the same thing.  Dei z  talk 23:43, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.