Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of bands whose leader is not the lead singer


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. WP:SNOW. postdlf (talk) 15:42, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

List of bands whose leader is not the lead singer

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Short story: listcruft.

Long story:
 * 1) The meaning of "leader" in this context is ill-defined. Some sources refer to the frontman as leader (source #11, as an example), but not all of those listed as leaders are the frontmen for their bands. (Examples: Bruce Dickinson vs. Steve Harris for Iron Maiden, Niel Peart vs. Geddy Lee for Rush).
 * 2) The list is woefully undersourced; I would argue that each and every entry on this list requires a cited source (with the possible exceptions of bands like Santana and Van Halen, where the name of the band makes this clear). More than half of the entries in this list are unsourced. At least one (#6) is unreliable, as the text of the source originated from Wikipedia itself. Sourcing them all will likely be difficult because:
 * 3) This is not an independently notable subject. The sources that are there aren't explicitly about this subject; they may mention it in passing, but it's going to be quite difficult to find sources that discuss this explicitly, and nearly none that discuss the fact that the "leader" is not the lead singer. This is because:
 * 4) This topic is not an encyclopedic one to include; there's no particular relevance of this to the bands themselves. The fact that their leaders aren't their singers doesn't make them similar or comparable; having this list might suggest that there is some kind of similarity, which is synthesis without a reliable source.

A category might be better for this, because then it can be handled by a page-by-page basis, rather than this monolithic approach. But even then, it's probably overcategorization. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 06:32, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete. I couldn't have said it better. BTW, if this list is to be kept, it should be expanded to include every single band that doesn't have a singer, like the Kronos Quartet and such. In other words, it's a fairly silly concept. Drmies (talk) 06:34, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete the "leader" of a band is undefinable -- Guerillero &#124;  My Talk  07:00, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete Eventually, almost everything I have to say, Writ already covered it on his nom statement. This fails WP:LISTN because there is surely no reliable source treating the topic as a whole, apart from being a severe case of cross-band fancruft (maybe WP:LC can be called here, as this is a list). I may understand that the topic (or the treatment) looks very engaging and interesing, but those are two things that only the prose should meet, not the whole list. — ΛΧΣ  21  07:05, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. &#9733;&#9734;  DUCK IS PEANUTBUTTER &#9734;&#9733; 07:11, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. &#9733;&#9734;  DUCK IS PEANUTBUTTER &#9734;&#9733; 07:11, 10 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete. I have nothing more to add than the nomination already says. Andrew327 07:50, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Silly, too. Beyond My Ken (talk) 09:24, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete I directly accuse anyone voting keep of being Eddie Van Halen PortlandOregon97217 (talk) 09:27, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete. Can't see the point of lists of things that are not certain things. Fireflo (talk) 15:45, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete since the 'leader' of a band isn't a clearly defined concept the way, say, the coach of a team is, this isn't and never could be a good encyclopedic list. Is the leader the main songwriter? The determiner of the band's creative direction? The one heard most often on the recordings? The one closest to the front of the stage? The one who controls and directs the band's business interests? The longest-lasting member? The most musically accomplished? The sole remaining original member? The one who speaks in interviews the most? The most famous one? While this might make an interesting late-night conversation with friends after a few beers, as an encyclopedia topic it's incredibly doofy, just like list of bands that have gotten worse over time or list of bands with a unique sound would be. Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  18:46, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:NOTDIRECTORY and WP:LISTCRUFT. There is a silly concept behind it as well. TBrandley (what's up) 22:36, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I think that quite possibly all of the valid points have already been made, except for the fact that this is a SNOW Delete. Automatic Strikeout  ( T  •  C ) 23:38, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete. LOL. — Statυs  ( talk,  contribs ) 23:59, 10 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Snow Delete There is no reason for this list, too vague and doesnt really make sense  Jay Jay What did I do? 01:41, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.