Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of best-selling albums in Mexico


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. No !votes after almost a month at AFD. (WP:NPASR) (non-admin closure) Natg 19 (talk) 20:08, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

List of best-selling albums in Mexico

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Previous commented on talk page of the article. It's a possible hoax (see talk page and even the AfD in Spanish Wikipedia). Chrishonduras ( Diskussion ) 06:29, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Articles for deletion/Log/2016 November 7.  —cyberbot I   Talk to my owner :Online 06:42, 7 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment I looked at the talk page, but I noticed that only Telemundo as brought up, but not the other source (rotativo). What's the stance on that one? Erick (talk) 11:51, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Erik. According to the own reference Rotativo has taken the information from "AMPROFON". Personally, I would not use this reference in music sales. So this list was taken and accepted over the time as "true" becoming a woozle effect and the information that we saw is a copy+paste. I tried to contact with AMPROFON but they never answered.

However, I already explained that is a impossible thing that albums like for example, Recuerdos, Vol. II sold 8 million copies. Doesn't matter the decade, Mexico is not a major music market like United Kingdom when the best-selling album in that country is about 6 million copias as of July 2016. Also, its doesnt matter the methodology of certificacion, shipments or sales. For example, Romance of Luis Miguel references say that was certified as 8x Platinum which is translate as 2 million copies (see the Sales certificates) but according to those references sold more than 7 million copies. Is impossible (even is he has not received the other certifications) is like he has release the album 5 times. Albums like Thriller of Michael Jackson that was release several years before, received certifications in recent years.

If those sales are worldwide and not in Mexico also I oppose rename the list like "best selling albums of Mexican artists". What about Rocío Dúrcal?. Reference would be like List of best-selling albums in Argentina that came from CAPIF or Billboard, high reliable sources in music industry or the RIAA for List of best-selling albums in the United States. Regards, Chrishonduras  ( Diskussion ) 17:38, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Er, I don't have any opinion on whether the list should be deleted or not. Just a quick note though, AMPROFON's database only goes back to 1999. Anything before that would have to be verified through reliable sources. Again, not taking any stances, just letting you know (unless you already knew that). Erick (talk) 17:45, 7 November 2016 (UTC)


 * I already know that AMPROFON's database online is recent. This is the reason why I mentioned an example of Thriller that was already certified in recent years or albums before 1999 from mainstream Mexican artists like Thalía that became certified in 1999. So what's going on with the best-selling albums? at least an last certification in 1999 doesn't appear. Even, before the Juan Gabriel's dead (that is common obtain a certification after dead, like Michael Jackson). No problem. Thanks for your comments. Chrishonduras  ( Diskussion ) 17:57, 7 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Pinging, for his input. Erick (talk) 17:47, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I think "list of best-selling (anything)" on Wikipedia is always going to have problems, especially when it comes to music. There is so much discussion about how many records a singer or a band have sold, and even for a major worldwide artist like the Beatles or ABBA, there are still many arguments going on, decades after the group split up. In the case of ABBA the difference in claimed sales is as much as 300 million records, which is more than most artists sell in their entire lifetime. So how are you supposed to get a definitive sales figure for anybody?


 * I try and keep a watch on List of best-selling girl groups, which I think is a pointless article and have also tried to get an RfC going as to whether it should be kept or deleted. It has the same problem that Erick has stated: the only reliable source you can use for tracking sales or shipments is the certification, but if there are no certifications before 1999 then there is no way of knowing how many albums Michael Jackson or Madonna sold before then... or even Ana Gabriel, Javier Solís or Vicente Fernández, who must have all sold millions of records in Mexico before 1999. All you can use are unconfirmed reports in newspapers, which may only give total record sales and not individual album sales.


 * If you look at books where they do have lists of best-selling albums, like the Guinness Book of World Records or Top 10 of Everything, they always makes sure their top ten list is taken from a single reliable source. Once you start taking numbers from lots of different sources, like different newspaper and magazine articles, I feel you compromise the reliability of the article, because you are not comparing the same thing – sales figures in newpaper articles tend to be supplied by the record company and they are notorious for exaggerating the sales of their artists. Richard3120 (talk) 15:10, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
 * That's a very helpful insight. Thanks as always Richard! Erick (talk) 15:40, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I suppose the list in the second reference is reliable... it does say the figures come from AMPROFON. But it's only up to the end of 2009, so if the article is kept, then some mention of the data being "as of December 2009" should be added, because we don't know how it has changed since then. Richard3120 (talk) 16:02, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comments Richard3120. I know that we have problems with the best-seller in music topics, but the thing is evaluate each case separate like here. I already know and demonstrated why I think this list should to be delete and explained about the second reference which looks actually like a not official list or report from AMPROFON. I'm not trying to be punisher but showing a real perspective about this list. Chrishonduras  ( Diskussion ) 17:40, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Also, we talked about the problem with certifications from AMPROFON since 1999. So, look at this: Paulina is an album released on 2000 but was certified as 6x Platinum which is translate like 900,000... So where is the other copies by an album that reference say that sold 3 million copies in Mexico?. If is so popular that is in the best-seller in that country, the album should be certified again in recent years. We've examples like Primera Fila of Thalía or Camilia that this happen. Some reference say that this album sold 2.5 or 3 million copies but worldwide, not in Mexico. I think that the problem of those sales is because are worldwide (which is more realistic talking mathematically) and some authors put that are just in Mexico. But there is another irregulary thing, what's going on with Rocío Dúrcal, is a Mexican artist?. I'm pretty sure that this list actually have origins in a forum or something like that, that later was published by an author in Diario Rotativo. For this album Paulina, some fans believes that the sales came from Mexico because the artist received a 2x Diamond award and was presented in Mexico but was for worldwide sales. Chrishonduras ( Diskussion ) 18:22, 8 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Also, If we will keep this list, we should add an album by Pedro Infante that has the best-selling album in Mexico with 20 million copies which confirmed a "realiable" source: El Universal. The order for the albums will vary. Chrishonduras  ( Diskussion ) 18:31, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I did wonder about that – it says the list is "the top ten albums in Mexican history"... you could interpret that as the top ten best-selling albums in Mexico, or as Chrishonduras suggests, the top ten best-selling albums by Mexican artists worldwide. Richard3120 (talk) 21:23, 8 November 2016 (UTC)


 * But what about Rocio Durcal? She is not a Mexican artist and the original sources talk about "best-selling albums in Mexico". The list is totally contradictory (and sources): mexican sales, worldwide sales, there is not a Mexican artist. I don't think that not apply a rename or wikify. Chrishonduras  ( Diskussion ) 00:55, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Mexico-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 22:26, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 22:26, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 22:26, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 01:45, 14 November 2016 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 16:47, 24 November 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.