Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of born-again Christian laypeople


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the debate was delete. — FireFox • T • 12:44, 19 February 2006

List of born-again Christian laypeople
As discussed in here, "laypeople" is fuzzy and useless, and "born-again" is either useless, or includes only those Christians who we can verify actually said "I am born-again" &mdash; leaving us with a very small or empty list. But is it even worth making this distinction?

I have been trying to get the list merged, but since we can't agree on where to merge it to, we should simply delete it. Any important people should already be in a list by denomination. ··gracefool |&#9786; 03:44, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Delete (I agreed with delete, "support" might look confusing here) "Born-again" is kind of becoming a catch phrase term that's perhaps not very meaningful and difficult to pin down. The Barna Poll people do try by defining born-agains as "people who said they have made a personal commitment to Jesus Christ that is still important in their life today and who also indicated they believe that when they die they will go to Heaven because they had confessed their sins and had accepted Jesus Christ as their savior." It'd be difficult to verify who believes all those things and also that definition is kind of vague. Plus this term can be contentious because of confusion.--T. Anthony 06:34, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Just adding a thought. When I go to wikipedia, I am looking for an overview first (what the *#$& is this term?) then I can always delve deeper using the extra links. A list of people who have actually referred to themselves as "born again" is simply useless - EVEN to born-again Christians since no one can really know if they ARE born-again or just claiming to be. I'd just like a list of Christians first (by some guideline... protestant?) then leave the subtleties for further study. This whole argument has devolved into "he's not REALLY a TRUE CHRISTIAN (tm)". I'd ask "Who is?" Using "born-again" as a category is just biased. Alice Cooper is a self-professed Christian at age 58 and has said as much in 2006 on his radio show which airs all over the place. Easily verifiable and yet.... did he say "I am a BORN-AGAIN (tm) Christian"? No. Yet, if asked, he'd say he gave his life to Jesus, repented, baptised, etc.

An encyclopedia cannot (and should not) hold Ph.D.-level data. It is for the LAY PEOPLE to get a basic grip on a term. If they need more, there's a lifetime of study available on the web now. Just my 2 cents. Tim Simmons 2006/02/13


 * Delete Nonsense list of people. Maustrauser 13:16, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. JPD (talk) 13:49, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom.--Isotope23 14:23, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment: I find problematic the notion that we should delete all Ph.D.-level data in favor of lay people. An encyclopedia should clearly strive to be understandable to lay people but not at the cost of providing encyclopedia content. Isn't there a simple english wikipedia for this? Savidan 15:42, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 * This is a religion related list. Therefore lay people means the "laity" i.e. people who are not ordained. PhD or no PhD is not really the issue. People on this list may or may not have a PhD, it makes no difference.--T. Anthony 18:18, 14 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. FWIW, I had always understood "lay people" as meaning "people other than clergy". Savidan's comment above indicates that he/she is using a different definition.  A clear demonstration of the fuzziness of the term. Ergot 17:00, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. ¡Dustimagic!  ( T / C ) 19:21, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. List is effectively meaningless. Mattley (Chattley) 20:57, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete strange, ill-defined and somewhat pointless list. Just zis Guy, you know? [T]/[C] [[Image:Flag of the United Kingdom.svg|25px| ]] 23:43, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete as badly-defined, permanently incomplete list, i.e. listcruft. Stifle 00:17, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. Might as well have a "List of Christian people". Grandmasterka 02:12, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete pointless list. Elizabeth 06:00, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Arbustoo 07:21, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Avi 15:44, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Pavel Vozenilek 19:50, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete do we want wikipedia to have an article of many thousand names. This is not a finite article, nor can it be.  The list could become longer than a telephone directory. Rhyddfrydol 23:43, 15 February 2006 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.