Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of career achievements by Brett Favre


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Consensus is that the precedent set at Articles_for_deletion/List_of_NFL_records_held_by_Jerry_Rice_(2nd_nomination) should apply to these lists as well. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 17:08, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

List of career achievements by Brett Favre

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All three "achievement" articles were created in the good faith effort to reduce the size of their respective "biography" topics (I know it was in good faith, because I created List of career achievements by Brett Favre). However, similar to Articles for deletion/List of NFL records held by Jerry Rice (2nd nomination), these lists fail multiple Wikipedia policies and guidelines. They have also suffered from the addition of superfluous "records" that are not commonly reported on. Noting that WP:AFDISNOTCLEANUP, it is important to point out that when all of the superfluous/statbook records are removed from the achievement lists, the actual records and achievements are already sufficiently covered in the biography articles. Thus, these articles should be deleted/redirected to their respective biographies articles per WP:NOTSTATS and WP:LISTN, noting similar precedent in Articles for deletion/List of NFL records held by Jerry Rice (2nd nomination). Take a look at Jerry Rice to see how even one of the most celebrated players in NFL history still adequately covers his records and achievements in a relatively brief article. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk)  @ 16:56, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
 * From WP:NOTSTATS (Policy): Where statistics are so lengthy as to impede the readability of the article, the statistics can be split into a separate article and summarized in the main article. This would seem to justify the existence of these lists. However, just a sentence later the same policy points us to WP:LISTN (Notability guideline) to determine whether the statistics themselves are notable enough to be summarized in a standalone list.
 * From WP:LISTN (Notability guideline): Notability of lists (whether titled as "List of Xs" or "Xs") is based on the group. One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; notable list topics are appropriate for a stand-alone list [emphasis added]. Thus, we need to determine if "[Individual QB's] achievements" as a group is discussed in reliable sources. Although their achievements are clearly discussed by reliable sources, these achievements are inherently tied to the biography of the specific QB. Sources that do discuss their achievements focus on commonly understood records and awards, such as: MVP awards, most passing yards, Pro Bowls, etc. They don't discuss records like Most wins by a starting quarterback, cold weather or being 5th place in the category Most regular season games, 4+ touchdown passes, home, career. This brings up WP:OR (Policy) issues, as many of these records require database queries on dedicated statbook websites.
 * These articles have and will continue to suffer from WP:RECENTISM (Explanatory supplement), as sources heavily focus on a player during their career with regards to records, but die down after retirement. This is especially true with Brett Favre, as his achievement list now notes very detailed "records" that he is in 5th place.
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions.  « Gonzo fan2007  (talk)  @ 16:56, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:50, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:51, 30 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete per same reasons as Articles_for_deletion/List_of_NFL_records_held_by_Jerry_Rice_(2nd_nomination). Useight (talk) 19:18, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. Per nominator and comments at Articles for deletion/List of NFL records held by Jerry Rice (2nd nomination). The Favre list now has 257,000 bytes of data with layers and sublayers of trivia that would require continuing updating. Props to Gonzo for recognizing that his good-faith creation from 2008 has grown into a bit of monster. . . . Paging Dr. Frankenstein. Cbl62 (talk) 18:26, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete For the reasons mentioned by others. What is important can be fit into the main bio page. FlaviusFunderburke (talk) 19:13, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete or Merge to the main articles. Wikipedia is not Stats. ~ EDDY  ( talk / contribs )~ 20:25, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete - per above. Also, it is a slippery slope - soon every athlete will have a bio page and a stat page. It is also significant to note that there are dedicated stat websites such as pro football reference which we could never compete with if we tried. Better to avoid trying altogether. ‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalencia  ᐐT₳LKᐬ  19:25, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete all. All statscruft. Ajf773 (talk) 08:28, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete too much detail, more like a stats article. Would be suitable for a sports almanac. Try another wiki.--Paul McDonald (talk) 19:45, 4 February 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.