Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of cheese factories in Quebec


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was draftify at Draft:Cheesemaking in Quebec. Geschichte (talk) 18:18, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

List of cheese factories in Quebec

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Fails WP:NLIST. Not a single entry in the list is individually notable. There is also no significant coverage of 'cheese factories in Quebec' or, as far as I can see, any other good reason why Wikipedia should list all the cheese factories in Quebec. Lennart97 (talk) 21:53, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Lennart97 (talk) 21:57, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Quebec-related deletion discussions. Lennart97 (talk) 21:57, 20 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete. None of the listed entries has articles which strongly suggests that they are not notable. Even if they were, having a category for them might be better than a list article. --DanielRigal (talk) 00:05, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I see discussion, below, that coverage of Cheesemaking in Quebec is a legitimate topic. I agree, however such coverage should be written as encyclopaedic prose. I am not persuaded that lists of companies, which do not have their own articles, is valid content in this case, or the vast majority of other cases. For that reason I do not see any mergable content here and still support its deletion. --DanielRigal (talk) 17:29, 3 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete Per nom, another list that is completely unnecessary.  Jay  Jay What did I do? 05:06, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep I have long noticed that one of Wikipedia's systemic biases has been that against food in general and cheese in particular. Some of the many sources available about cheese producers in Quebec are, , and . I'm off to make myself a cheese sandwich now before that article gets consigned to the dustbin. Phil Bridger (talk) 22:24, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment For the record, I will presume that this was intended to be a Keep vote. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 03:01, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I am one of those rare people who follow policy by treating AfD discussions as efforts to reach a consensus about topics rather than battlegrounds based on entrenched votes, so would prefer it if people didn't change my comments. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:02, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep WP:CSC expressly permits lists where "Every entry in the list fails the notability criteria." The topic of cheese factories in Quebec is notable;  and  are two articles discussing the topic in general as well as some specific fromageries.  The list should be expanded, not deleted. power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 20:23, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete Directory of non-notable local businesses, no different than listing every berry farm or sausage maker or whatever that manufactures a product. Phil Bridger's sources would be great for the Canadian cheese article (or a new Quebec focused one)! The same to powerenwiki, if these sources establish notability for cheesemaking in Quebec in general, terrific, but that's not basis for a context-free list of every non-notable individual company. Reywas92Talk 20:38, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
 * The sources that I offered above are all about individual cheese producers in Quebec, rather than cheese production in general, and all list such producers. The same applies to the sources given by power~enwiki. I don't think that "cheese factory" is a good translation of "fromagerie" - "factory" conjures up images of a place that produces large amounts of plastic cheese slices to put on hamburgers, or that abomination "pizza cheese" - so I think this article should be renamed. My best effort so far is "cheese producers" but someone may well be able to improve on that. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:08, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. Simple case of WP:NOTDIR. Ajf773 (talk) 09:05, 24 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep per Power~enwiki. 219.77.116.215 (talk) 15:07, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:5P. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. This is not encyclopedic content. Cheesemaking in Quebec would be (and I may well create that myself). But this almost entirely unreferenced, no-context list of factories that may or may not have existed is just not encyclopedic. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 00:50, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
 * See Canadian cheese. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 01:36, 27 December 2020 (UTC)


 * If that article is created, this list may be merged into and redirected to that article. Alternatively rename this list and rewrite it into that. 219.77.116.215 (talk) 16:51, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 16:30, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Rename and Expand: Agree with, Cheesemaking in Quebec is a potential good article and this list could be the embryo. Rename this List and expand it into a solid article. Canadian cheese is a good summary for this to be branched off of per SUMMARY style. what do you think of this idea? it preserves your current work, while providing the opportunity to develop a GA class article. Don't be discouraged by this discussion, I think the end you will have a great article.  (and other !votes above) What do you think about this possibility?
 * If this idea is rejected, I'd switch to Delete; I just don't see this passing LISTN or CLN, and it fails against WP:NOTDIR.  // Timothy ::  talk  10:24, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I am happy with renaming and expanding if a few conditions are met: 1. There is consensus that this topic is notable and that there is significantly more to be written than what is now at Canadian cheese. 2. An editor commits to expanding the article reasonably soon. 3. The complete list of cheesemakers is not incorporated context-free as it is now; care is taken to keep only notable entries, and explain in the article why they are notable.
 * If these conditions can not be met right away, it might be better to draftify the renamed article. Lennart97 (talk) 12:03, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
 * There's definitely more to be said than is currently at Canadian_cheese, but my French isn't as good as I'd like it to be so it's seriously incomplete atm. I'll ask at WP:CANADA if any French-speakers could help out. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 21:12, 31 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Even if this cannot be achieved shortly, it's still better to redirect to Canadian cheese#Quebec (and to keep the list either by merging or in the edit history) than to delete. 219.77.116.215 (talk) 11:32, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I could try writing on this new renamed article. There are a lot of things to talk about surrounding this subject. --Safyrr (talk) 18:35, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Strongly Support giving creator the opportunity to work unrushed on a renamed and expanded version of the article. They have expressed a willingness and desire to work on it, it's a very viable article, nothing is gained by deletion. Neutral on drafting, but do not believe it necessary.   // Timothy ::  talk  19:32, 1 January 2021 (UTC)


 * I note that nobody has addressed the sources that power~enwiki and I linked above. Aren't deletion discussions supposed to be about sources, rather than unevidenced opinions? Yes, I understand that both Americans and the type of techies who seem to make up a large part of the Wikipedia-editing population don't "get" cheese, but that is not a reason to delete a list that has been shown to pass all the relevant guidelines, and is notable to far more people than the latest meme to hit social media. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:11, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Because those provide a few examples of cheesemakers that the writers visited and discussion of the local industry. They do provide content for an article with context of the industry with selected important cheesemakers, but they do not establish the need for a bullet-point listing of every non-notable local business in the industry. I'm a huge cheese lover (I've even made quite a bit of it in my own kitchen!) and your "unevidenced opinion" insinuating that this is something I'm too naive or distracted to understand is a rude and unfounded personal attack. A list of the cheesemakers in my state, a couple of which I've even visited, would not be appropriate either, since Wikipedia is not a directory of non-notable businesses. I fully support the draftify proposal above for a prose article, which could use your sources well, without the listings. Reywas92Talk 21:36, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
 * The sources have written about lists of cheesemakers, so the topic of this article is notable, and so we can have a list. This is nothing to do with the current content, which is a matter for editing, not deletion discussion, as is the organisation of our content in this area. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:38, 2 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.