Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of cities in Germany starting with S


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was no consensus. Secret account 21:30, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

List of cities in Germany starting with S

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

isn't this what categories are for? Rtphokie 02:41, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete This shouldn't even be a category. faithless   (speak)  02:46, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete and don't even THINK about categorizing, non-notable junction of trivia. Ten Pound Hammer  • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 02:49, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete: WP:NOT.  - Rjd0060 02:57, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment. We have other articles that consist of lists of places - such as List of municipalities in Quebec and List of United Kingdom locations: Bi-Bn. Both are more than just charts, where this article is... well, it's not good. A list of cities in Germany is encyclopedic - Better, maybe a list of places. But it doesn't need to be split to this level, and it must include encyclopedic content. ZZ Claims~ Evidence 03:21, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Ultraexactzz is right, it shouldn't be split up like this at all. Malinaccier (talk • contribs) 03:27, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * keep if the nominator and the other deletionists would actually read the article and see the category it is in, they would see that it is part of a too long list that was broken out alphabetically into several lists. No this is not what categories are for, this is what lists are for. Categories only show article name; lists show additional information which anyone reading the article can see.  This deletion nomination does a dis-service and it editors who contribute content. Hmains 03:28, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Do the lists need improvment and another cut at how they are organized? Then improve things and do it. Stop wasting everyone's time with these useless deletions. Hmains 03:32, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment I wouldn't call this a "non-notable junction of trivia". It's one of a series of articles that are divided alphabetically for the sake of organization. It's not like someone's trying to make a point about German cities that begin with "S".
 * Though the lists are incomplete, I think we should give them some time to grow. This seems like a forgotten effort to better organize the information here, but these lists could be quite valuable if someone wants to expand them. As said many times before, lists are not redundant to categories. They are often superior, as they can present additional information (like population figures). Zagalejo^^^ 03:29, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment Breaking up long lists into smaller ones is fine, but it needs to be done more logically. What reason is there to list cities by the letter they begin with? Wouldn't it make more sense and aid navigation to list the cities in Germany by the state they're in? faithless   (speak)  04:35, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * What would be the advantage of that? Zagalejo^^^ 10:57, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You don't think it's more logical to break down the list of cities in Germany into, say, List of cities in Saarland, List of cities in Hesse, etc. than by which letter of the alphabet the city happens to begin with? Where's the logic in that? Listing them by state ensures that they have something relevant in common (location rather than spelling) and eases navigation through articles. faithless   (speak)  13:08, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, why can't we do both? There are many cases where lists like this can be useful. For example, suppose someone only has a vague memory of the way a city's name is spelled, and doesn't know what state it is in? Zagalejo^^^ 20:23, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

*Strong keep, but rename For once I agree with DGG. But I think the "starting with" is part of the problem: the title should just be "List of cities in Germany - S". Someone should also undertake converting the table to one that is sortable, which will increase the (already large) advantage this list has over the category. UnitedStatesian (talk) 05:30, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per Ten Pound Hammer  --Brewcrewer 04:41, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete all from A to Z, so to speak. ~ | twsx | talkcont | 09:32, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep just breaking down a big article into more managable chunks. At the very worst, possibly redirect to List of cities in Germany. Lugnuts 10:18, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Not only should this article be deleted, so should the ones for A-R and T-Z.--Rtphokie 13:41, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong Delete per all of the above Doc Strange 15:47, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment No, there's not a category called "Cities in Germany starting with S" (although it was a clue once on $20,000 Pyramid). There is a category for cities in Germany, and it's in alphabetical order.  The article does have information that a category wouldn't, such as population (when was the census?) and what "state" (Bundesland) and "county" (District) the city is in, although I'm not sure that this is useful for comparative purposes.  If there's this type of table for cities in other nations, then I don't see why this should be deleted.  A lot of hard work went into this, I understand, and I'm not judging it on its title, but I don't think its very useful without a map.  Mandsford 16:28, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment. This is part of a series on lists of cities in Germany beginning with each letter. If we delete this, then we should delete them all - and any other lists of places in countries by first letter.--h i s  s p a c e   r e s e a r c h 06:31, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep If there's any subject that could use a common standard, this would be it. Actually, this article has more substance than most "List of cities in _______" pages.   Many of these (List of cities in Romania, for example) are nothing but blue links.   On the other hand, List of cities in Norway has more detail.  My belief is that (1) this article may have been nominated because of the title (or at least, the feeling that "cities...starting with S" sounds too narrow a concept) and (2) the article could stand some improvement.  As H.S.R. says, if we delete this, shouldn't we delete all the articles?  And if we're deleting lists of the world's cities and keeping lists of SpongeBob episodes, is that any way to run an encyclopedia? Mandsford 18:47, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete: per WP:NOT, categories are the place for this -- ¿Amar៛ Talk to me / My edits 06:15, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep improving it until it reaches the quality of List of United Kingdom locations, which was resoundingly kept. The value of good list articles of this variety to Wikipedia is well-established.--Father Goose 22:26, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete: per WP:NOT Brimba 05:36, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep - Did somebody seriously AfD one letter from a broken-up list? Has it really come down to this, where the rules are manipulated in such a way that having one redlink in a series is considered "good" for Wikipedia? Torc2 05:54, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep per Hmains and Mandsford who have it exactly right. AndyJones 08:57, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep A list of cities in Germany is clearly encyclopaedic and if it is necessary to split this list because it is too long then to do so alphabetically certainly seems reasonable. Suicidalhamster 12:01, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep Agree with Hmains. -- Nikolaj Winther (talk) 13:57, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep this would only be deleted if we were to delete all Cities in.... The merit of dividing alphabetically is an editorial decision--probably it is better to avoid the very long articles we would have otherwise. Those who said delete as non-notable intersection would only be right if this were the only one, not one of a series. They should take another look. DGG (talk) 00:33, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete Changing my view. I see now the page is a WP:CFORK of List of cities in Germany, which still exists despite its length.  Delete all A-Z until consensus is reached between 1 list and multiple lists by letter.  One way or the other, not both. UnitedStatesian (talk) 05:40, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment. I don't think I agree. You've identified an editorial issue, and that needs an editorial solution: I cannot see any way in which deleting this article would help to achieve that. If the consenus is pro-split (which seems kinda likely to me) one of (or all of, if we delete all) the necessary articles would have to be DRV'd or re-made from scratch. Has anyone raised the issue on a relevant talk page? Maybe at Talk: List of cities in Germany? Presumably the best thing would be to take the discussion there, and to close down this one. I'll look back at this debate later today. AndyJones (talk) 08:44, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep. This article is, as UnitedStatesian notes above, redundant to List of cities in Germany; however, this and its companion articles are actually better than that list, as they provide additional information besides the city names. Therefore, we should keep these sub-lists, and delete List of cities in Germany instead (or better yet, turn it into a disambiguation page for these articles). Terraxos (talk) 02:58, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.