Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of countries that McDonalds franchises their restaurants in

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was keep (no consensus). Mindspillage (spill yours?) 17:12, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

List of countries that McDonalds franchises their restaurants in
Useless list. Unless I miscounted, the page at http://app.mcdonalds.com/home4.html has a list of 62 countries with McDonald's franchises. So, are we going to have a list here which contains nothing but the names of 62 countries? RickK 05:58, May 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * By the time this gets through VFD, it'll probably be 63.&mdash;Wahoofive (talk) 06:15, 14 May 2005 (UTC)


 * In the interests of good health: Delete El_C 06:31, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, pointless list lacking supersizing. Megan1967 06:22, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. EvilPhoenix
 * Delete - Poorly titled. Should be List of countries that McDonalds doesn't yet franchise in :/ -- Longhair | Talk 07:15, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, should also mention the date first opened, and be ordered by date. That would be very interesting indeed. Kappa 07:45, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Hey, don't ruin our fun! Good point though. I'm certainly willing to reconsider if I see some improvement to that effect. El_C 08:00, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * If you think it's fun mocking good-faith contributions... Kappa 08:31, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Hah! Yes, I most certainly do: McDonald's "good-faith" contributions to humanity! El_C 09:54, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. If anyone ever feels the need to have this sort of information - if you can call it that - they've eaten too many McDonalds ice-cream cones...Harro5 08:01, May 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: McDonalds is correctly described as an "emblem of globalization" in the McDonald's article. It's only rival in these terms is Coca-cola. Whether an economy has reached a sufficient level of prosperity and openness to attract this kind of franchise seems like an extremely useful piece of information. When McDonalds opens in large countries like Russia and China, it makes international news, and I'm sure it makes national news when it opens in any country. Kappa 09:44, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, citing the above comment.--Commander Keane 13:22, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep only if expanded as suggested by Kappa, and retitled in proper English. 23skidoo 13:38, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. As Kappa pointed out, this could be a useful article. It is also verifiable and NPOV.  Double Blue  (Talk) 14:21, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. In The Lexus and the Olive Tree: "No two countries that both had McDonald's had fought a war against each other since each got its McDonald's" Thomas L. Friedman. Admittedly this is a controversial proposition, but it still seems like a very useful list to have. It would probably be useful to note what year they got their first franchise. --Arcadian 14:26, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, expand per Kappa. &#9999; Oven Fresh  2  16:24, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * DELETE in the interests of universal good health Stancel 16:31, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep. Very useful information, for the reason mentioned by Arcadian. -- Decumanus 16:59, 2005 May 14 (UTC)
 * Keep - useful information, especially given Friedman's Golden Arches Theory of Conflict Prevention. Year of first franchise and (rough/estimated) number of current franchises would also be nice.  Also, what's with using "health" or the like as justification for deletion?  Ought we just delete the McDonald's article then, for the health of everyone? -- Jonel 17:20, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and expand, Maccas is a convenient and wholesome substitute for food, and you never know when you'll need to find one. Lots of good ways to expand this, some information on international menus is already in the main article but it's going to get too long if we put all the useful stuff in. I hope there's a better name for this article (list), but that's not a VfD matter. Andrewa 17:24, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and expand. The Golden Arches conflict prevention theory justifies its inclusion, would help to have the years of opening and number of outlets included (particular for Serbia in the late 90s ;))--Jjcarroll 19:15, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Crap. Neutralitytalk 19:17, May 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * This vegetarian votes keep per Kappa, DoubleBlue, Jonel, Andrewa and Jjcarroll. But rename. Samaritan 19:36, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

I am completely at a loss. This extreme inclusionism has gotten totally out of hand. What is there to keep in this article? It is nothing but a list of countries, and incomplete at that. Should we have List of countries with KFC franchises, List of countries where Pepsi is sold, List of countries that have never invaded the United States? This is ludicrous. RickK 20:05, May 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * It's quite important and useful as pertains to McDonald's Corporation, one of the most important consumer product companies in the world, but would be too long to merge into that main article. Samaritan 20:48, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * RickK this article is a start. This is a wiki pedia, things are supposed to be able to grow, someone has an idea, someone else adds more content, someone else suggests a refinement. That can't happen if growing articles get squelched just because they aren't complete. Those other lists you mention would certainly be relevant to the companies in question, but as has been explained, McDonalds is probably the most significant. Kappa 20:27, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Utterly useless. Delete.  Edeans 20:29, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, and insert a paragraph into McDonalds listing the countries. Otherwise, Move to "List of countries in which McDonalds franchises their restaurants" - if it has to stay, let's at least give it a grammatically correct title. Otherwise, add to catagory "Article titles ending with prepositions" :) Mgw 21:00, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * People are voting to keep this, I concur with them. Also, I like the idea of putting the date first opened on the countries listed on this article. --SuperDude 21:02, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Now, one of the countries listed on this list denotes that it was the first country to have an outside-of-the-US McDonalds, that is another reason to keep it. --SuperDude 02:54, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, useless list Gmaxwell 21:19, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong keep - emblamatic of the frightening reach of this corporate giant! BTW, isn't KFC now owned by Burger King (along with Taco Bell) or something like that? If so, there should be a single generic list for national market penetration by that conglom. as well. This ain't your grand-dad's encyclopaedia! -- BD2412 thi m k  act  22:19, 2005 May 14 (UTC)
 * KFC is owned by Pepsico. RickK 04:44, May 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * We're both wrong. KFC is owned by Yum! Brands, Inc., which also owns the restaurants my friends used to call Long John Dildo's, Pizza Slut and Toxic Hell. An article on international market penatration (e.g. a list) would be appropriate for Yum! as well. -- BD2412 thi m k  act  15:20, 2005 May 15 (UTC)
 * Delete. Quale 00:08, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Totally pointless. Why not just put the link on the bottom on the main McD's page? Mcfly85 03:27, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Cultural icon, useful list. Also, Rename --Unfocused 05:17, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Encyclopedic List. Klonimus 05:39, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment. What's the problem with inserting this list, in paragraph form, into the main article, McDonalds, and getting rid of this page? Mgw 06:23, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
 * We are hoping to annotate this list. Kappa 06:59, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and expand. The Economist has a Big Mac index to look at exhange rates across countries. Also look at number of restaurants in each country. Capitalistroadster 10:10, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep because the info is relevant to McDonald's. I don't want it to become a focus for anti-globalist agitprop though. Gazpacho 21:31, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep For reasons given by Kappa, Arcadian and Samaritan. Rename to List of countries with McDonalds restaurants. 22:40, May 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Incomplete, insignificant list. Maybe a weak keep if it even attempted to be reasonably informative, but this is just sad. Gamaliel 08:03, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge with McDonald's and delete - Skysmith 08:21, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. This is surely more informative than many other lists. Perhaps needs a less unwieldy title, though; maybe List of countries with McDonalds franchises, maybe? Smerdis of Tlön 14:25, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I was able to find years for most of the countries. Also, I put in a section about Friedman's theory, along with some counterexamples. I might resort the list chronologically (it is currently alphabetical) if no one objects. I support the rename recommendation of Ihcoyc. --Arcadian 15:39, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as pointless. It is possible to make the point that Maccie D's has its arches everywhere without this. In fact, a short sweet statement (or even paragraph) to that effect, garnished with some choice examples (like Fiji. Can you believe I saw one in Fiji?) will make the point better than an incomplete list. It's a simple case of presentation, what's easier to read, a journal article with twenty tables or a concise article in New Scientist?" Sabine's Sunbird 01:42, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Sabine, you may want to read this Snopes article. --Arcadian 02:03, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Of the countries I've been too in the last five years, Belize, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Namibia, Uganda, Kenya and Botswana didn't have Maccie D's. Fiji, Thailand, South Africa, etc etc etc did. Did your eyes glaze over when I listed them? The Snopes article in a way made my point, it's better to discuss a subject than just quote lists.
 * Keep. -- M e r o v i n g i a n  (t) (c) 05:06, May 17, 2005 (UTC)


 * Tell you what, I'll drop my delete vote and change it to a keep vote if the word list is dropped from the article title (change it to MacDonalds around the world or something like it). We can then have an article, which can discuss the worldwide reach (and limits thereof) as well as mention the myth, and the business paradgim, resistance to MacDonalds in certain settings (like the Spanish Steps). The list, with dates, can then be part of an article, like each biological family article has an article and then a list of the species in that family. (Calling something a list, to my mind, discourages anything but listing.)


 * (P.S. Puerto Rico is not a country)Sabine's Sunbird 02:48, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

]], then why can't this article exist. Moreover, there is a famous urban legend that no country with a McDonalds ever attacked another country with a McDonalds - and this article helps to show that the urban legend is wrong. Kingturtle 02:09, 18 May 2005 (UTC) P.S. I moved the artice to List of countries with McDonalds franchises to be consistant with the syntax of List of countries with Burger King restaurants.
 * Keep and Expand with the raison d'etre for the page. I.e. "This list is important because it represents... etc." Gotta keep it distinct from the History of McDonald's page on the main McDonald's page--MatthewJ 05:16, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, non-topic. Radiant_* 13:11, May 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep (and find a better name): All of RickK's suggested lists could be useful for research. Wikipedia will benefit by accommodating such material. As many have pointed out the value of the article has potential for improvement, is NPOV, verifiable, and McDonald's expansion around the globe is supremely notable. Dystopos 21:39, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete this and List of countries with Burger King restaurants too. I do not see why we cannot just talk about the size of these companies in their own articles, these lists are pointless. The spread of these capitalist countries is bad enough in the real world, without their inexorable spread happening here too. If this article does get kept the title really should be changed to something that represents English. Rje 00:50, May 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Change to List of countries where McDonalds sells goatburgers. But, should this be a Category. Why not put a McDonalds logo on the front page of the "Culture of..." article for each country on this list? --Wetman 01:16, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Heh! :D El_C 01:37, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment. Voters are reminded that Wikipedia seeks to maintain a neutral point of view. The article should be judged by how it contributes to the world's use of information. As previous commenters have pointed out, a listing such as this could be valuable (though it should be expanded). It MAY EVEN be valuable to researchers making a case AGAINST the expansion of McDonald's. Moral opinions about the subject of the article and sarcasm are not warranted here. Dystopos 01:40, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
 * KEEP' - If there is a [[List of countries with Burger King restaurants
 * Delete. See my entry at the BK VfD for reasoning. -- Grev -- Talk 07:41, May 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete and merge with McDonalds. It wouldn't be too long if multiple columns were used, or something. --Berkut 07:59, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong keep, although retitling and writing an extensive article about McDonalds' breadth as a multinational corporation is the best course of action. Subject is quite notable. &mdash; Phil Welch 16:42, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - Lest we be bogged down in List of countries that a X lists --JiFish 12:01, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
 *  Delete  Change my vote to Rename in line with Arcadian's comments. Hiding 18:16, 18 May 2005 (UTC) Hiding 14:34, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep - I think we should keep it real! - Darwinek 19:14, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename -- I'd like to change my previous vote. I think we should keep the data in the page, but rename the page to Golden Arches Theory of Conflict Prevention, since that seems to be the most encyclopedia-worthy interpretation of the data.--Arcadian 19:20, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect to List of Countries or delete. --Carnildo 19:44, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge with Mcdonalds - while this article does have some importance, I see no reason why it shouldn't be merged with Mcdonalds.--Sophitus 20:35, May 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Primarily, this is a source of info for those seeking to use Mcdonald's as a point proving or disproving the spread of American culture, globalization, etc. It's also useful if somebody simply want's to know if a country has a McDonald's or not. Furthermore, "McDonald's ain't healthy for you" and "McDonald's is yet another example of America destroying the world's culture," while they're pretty true, are not valid reasons for deletion.-LtNOWIS 00:42, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge content with McDonalds, then delete . I have nothing against McDonalds (in fact, I just took a bite out of a Sausage Egg McMuffin. Mmm, breakfast grease), but this is merely a list. Expand the list, if possible, within the main article, then if there's actual content break it out. --Calton | Talk 02:38, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Have you looked at the article? It's got content now. Dystopos 03:20, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. I don't see how this is different from List of countries.   &rarr;I&ntilde;g&#333;lemo&larr;   talk  03:17, 2005 May 19 (UTC)
 * Comment Besides the Golden Arches Theory of Conflict Prevention, I'm surprised no one else mentioned the Big Mac index. This list is useful for at least three articles, McD's (which I hate with a passion), book/peace theory article, and the economic index. --Unfocused 13:11, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. We have got an introductory paragraph as well now, and there is more to the article than a list of countries. Encyclopedic. Sjakkalle 08:21, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.