Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of county routes in Hampshire County, West Virginia


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Kurykh (talk) 22:36, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

List of county routes in Hampshire County, West Virginia

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This is a list of most (all?) roads in Hampshire County, West Virginia, except for streets in towns. Some may be of a little local importance, but most of them are just ordinary little country roads without a hope of notability. Do we really need a full directory of these roads? There are a few other lists of this sort for other counties; if this nomination results in deletion, I plan to nominate the others. Nyttend (talk) 01:04, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep - Lists of county routes are fine to have, as long as these routes do not get individual articles.  Dough   4872   10:55, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete - This is just a list of roads without any context. I'd like to know why they're notable, how the routes are numbered, and be able to verify it with references.  I feel like West Virginia county roads would be better covered in a capstone article that doesn't yet exist. –Fredddie™ 11:18, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * It is a good idea to have a capstone article about the county route system in West Virginia but we should also have by-county lists. This list may be not in the best shape but that should not be a reason to delete it. We should improve it not delete it.  Dough   4872   11:44, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * So why is it fine to have such a list? Why can't we have huge lists of other non-notable things, then?  Nyttend (talk) 12:10, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * County routes are notable enough for a list since the county bothered to number them in a system. However, only the group is notable and individual routes are generally not notable enough for individual articles. Any type of roads below numbered/lettered county routes are generally not notable enough to be covered in even a list.  Dough   4872   12:16, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * That's not how it works; WP:GNG still applies. This list provides zero context for why they're notable.  None. –Fredddie™ 19:39, 1 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep: As long as the county route system is set up like County roads in Florida, County roads in Minnesota, or County routes in New York, then all counties should have a list page and be kept. The routelist templates should be used. There are other states that have county highways that don't have any pages to cover them, like Alabama, which has a very extensive county route system. I believe every state's county highways should be covered in lists like these. Charlotte Allison (Morriswa) (talk) 14:17, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by "set up like Florida, Minnesota, or New York"? It sounds like WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, but I want to be sure that's what you meant. –Fredddie™ 19:39, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * So you're saying that we should have a system of lists embracing basically every road in the state, outside municipalities. Why not have a similar set of lists for all the streets in municipalities?  And response to Dough — whether or not the county bothered to number them is irrelevant to notability, irrelevant to whether we should have a directory of them.  What if the county numbered roads maintained by other entities, e.g. townships?  That's what's done in some Pennsylvania counties; go to Lawrence County, Pennsylvania, and you'll see road numbers in small print on the name signage for roads out in the townships.  What's more, they're just numbered for administrative purposes, since everybody uses the road names in Lawrence County.  Is it appropriate to have a full list of such non-notable roads for the whole county, and if it is, how would such a list not be a violation of WP:NOTDIR?  Nyttend (talk) 22:12, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I would generally consider county routes the lowest tier of numbered route systems that should be covered in a list. Township roads, even if in a lettered/numbered system, are too local in nature to get even lists.  Dough   4872   22:58, 1 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:NOTDIR. County route systems that are not numbered uniquely as part of a state scheme are not notable.  V C  23:12, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:NOTDIR. Neither the individual roads nor the countywide collection of roads appear to have independent and reliable sources with significant coverage as needed to satisfy general notability. Some editors love to create complete lists of named or numbered things, but that is not consistent with WP:NOT. The ability to verify their existence is insufficient to justify their appearance in the encyclopedia. Wikipedia is not a collection of every verifiable thing, or we would have similar articles about "The firetrucks of Smithville"  or "The mailboxes of Jonesville," when there is an official listing of firetrucks by model, number, age and firestation, or mailboxes by street address. There are many nonnotable but verifiable sets of things operated by governments which do not belong in encyclopedias. Edison (talk) 14:37, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep Consensus with the above examples is that county roads can be notable enough for a list but are not generally notable enough for individual articles unless they satisfy WP:GNG. There have been multiple discussions on this subject in the past. Nominator's arguments apply to the notability of individual roads, and are a good explanation of why they are not individually notable, but that is not the issue here. Smartyllama (talk) 16:26, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete WP:NOTDIR and county roads fail WP:GNG....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 18:28, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 18:28, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of West Virginia-related deletion discussions. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 18:28, 2 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment. There are four other WV county route articles like this as well as a general navigational list: List of county routes in West Virginia. Should they all be added to the AfD debate? Ajf773 (talk) 21:26, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Let's see what happens with this discussion. Nyttend said he intended to nominate other lists if this one is deleted. I do not think the discussion would be helped much with the addition of a few more similar lists.  V C  02:56, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 12:36, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep per Morriswa and Smartyllama. The individual roads are almost always not notable and shouldn't have articles, an article on the county road system, which includes a general list, is notable. Such an article can be built off here. – Train2104 (t • c) 17:48, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Notability still has to be established, which has not occurred to date. –Fredddie™ 20:44, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 12:31, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep. Here's something might actually be useful! Lots and lots of articles on roads by region in Wikipedia. Hyperbolick (talk) 13:20, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Leaning delete. Some counties consider every road to be a county road. Should we keep around lists of those? No. There has to be some standard of notability. I would be happy to reconsider if some secondary sources/notability were given here, but I'm not seeing it, so I have to vote delete. --Rschen7754 05:48, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment No evidence has been provided for nominator's assertion that this list includes all roads in the entire county. And considering there are only about 200-250 roads listed, it seems unlikely that that is the case. By contrast, Virginia, which numbers all roads in most counties (though they are technically state roads) has numbers in the thousands, and even the tens of thousands in a few counties. So it seems highly unlikely that this includes every single road in the county. Smartyllama (talk) 17:04, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Apples and oranges. Virginia has way more people than West Virginia does. --Rschen7754 18:20, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 * A simple Google Maps search for "Hampshire County, West Virginia" shows numerous minor streets which do not appear on the list and are not numbers in Google maps, and a couple which are numbered in Google Maps and correspondingly appear in the list. It is clear that this does not include every single street in the county, as a similar list in Virginia would. I urge those who voted on that basis to reconsider. Smartyllama (talk) 19:00, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Are you really suggesting that people who !voted per WP:NOTDIR should reconsider because it's not a complete list? Should we just ignore #7 in NOTDIR? –Fredddie™ 21:40, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 * No, I'm suggesting that those who voted because it's a complete list of every single road in the county, while saying articles about counties in other states where this is not the case are notable, should reconsider because that's not how West Virginia defines county roads. It is a complete list of county roads in the county. That does not include every single road in the county, nor is it intended to. After looking it over, is the only one who voted on those grounds. My apologies for suggesting there are others. I would still encourage him to reconsider, but your vote, while I disagree with it, is not based on false premises, so I would consider it reasonable. I disagree with it, but reasonable people can disagree. Smartyllama (talk) 23:07, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I am willing to change my rationale to WP:INDISCRIMINATE, but without some profound argument, I will not change my overall stance, regardless of whether the list contains 100 percent or 70 percent or even 40 percent of the roads in Hampshire County.  V C  23:36, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Smartyllama, please read my vote (and the nominator's rationale) carefully. I don't think anyone voted delete "because it's a complete list of every single road in the county". --Rschen7754 00:38, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete, these are WP:MILL roars, no indication that the topic as such is discussed in sources and meets WP:NLIST.  Sandstein   06:22, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete as per WP:NOTDIR. I think when we choose to have lists of individual items, sometimes each is individually notable and in some cases each is not, but this is reaching too far down the notability ladder for inclusion.  I don't think anyone would argue if this was numbered state roads, but this is only 1/2 step up from list of every paved road in a county, and I think this is simply too much minutia for an encyclopedia, and is of dubious value to the reader.  Dennis Brown - 2&cent; 20:30, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
 * 'Delete per WP:UNSOURCED: Any material lacking a reliable source directly supporting it may be removed and should not be restored without an inline citation to a reliable source. As happens to be the case here. Best regards,Jeff5102 (talk) 11:46, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
 * That's a content issue, not a deletion issue. Smartyllama (talk) 12:52, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I do not believe so. If the content is not sourced, then it's notability is questionable at best. And if there is no evidence for notability, then it becomes a deletion issue.Jeff5102 (talk) 09:35, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete - not one reference. How is this information even verifiable? Not notable so fails the basic criteria for existence.  Gtstricky Talk or C 15:59, 24 May 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.