Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of disasters involving Canadians by death toll


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Big Dom  14:13, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

List of disasters involving Canadians by death toll

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Highly redundant with List of Canadian disasters by death toll; most disasters involving Canadians happen in Canada. As for disasters outside Canada, what does it mean to "involve Canadians"? I'm pretty sure there are Canadians living in Japan who were affected by the 2011 Sendai earthquake and tsunami. Should we include that? What about a plane crash in which there was one Canadian on board? Clearly an indiscriminate list with a trivial association with Canada. King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 01:52, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete as redundant to List of Canadian disasters by death toll, which actually does include disasters that "involve" Canadians, not merely those that happened in Canada. I don't see that as a problem, given that a stand-alone list has no impact on other articles, so that we shouldn't be concerned if events known for other consequences are listed if they fit the list's criteria.  If it turns out that 5,000 Canadians died in the Sendai earthquake for example, then why wouldn't that be of import to Canada and therefore of import to a Canada-related list?  Listing it thus (hypothetically) would be completely different than categorizing 2011 Sendai earthquake and tsunami by Category:Disasters involving Canadians, which I hope we can all agree would be inappropriate.  But I digress...  postdlf (talk) 02:54, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails WP:NotList.  KoshVorlon  Naluboutes ''AeriaGloris 16:36, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
 * There's no such thing as WP:NOTLIST. Judging from your comments in other AFDs, it seems that you would like to see all lists done away with just because they are lists.  That view obviously is contrary to consensus, so it would be more constructive within individual AFDs to address the specific content at hand based on recognized standards.  Phrasing your comment in the absolute as you have also incorrectly implies that your view is accepted policy.  postdlf (talk) 18:00, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete I agree that it's redundant to the much better List of Canadian disasters by death toll, and can't figure out what's the difference. I got a laugh out of "fails WP:NOTLIST as well"-- not a policy, but certainly there are people who wish that there was such a thing.  Lists are a very efficient way of organizing certain information, and in those cases, preferable to feeble attempts at prose.  Mandsford 23:47, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 00:02, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 00:03, 15 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment Postdlf, actually, WP:NOTDIR, #1 is what I was referring to. Yeah, I messed it up. Thanks for the catch !   KoshVorlon  Naluboutes ''AeriaGloris 17:14, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for being a good sport about it, better than I would have been. There are differing opinions about what constitutes a directory, just as there are about what constitutes indiscriminate information.  Although #7 might be argued also, I think that an article describing particular events in a particular nation (in this case, mass fatalities in Canada) would be encyclopedic, and a sortable table does things that a narrative can't.  In this case, it's already been done.  Mandsford 18:48, 15 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep, rename to List of Canadians killed outside of Canada by disasters, keeping the current organization by death toll, move the non-Canadian disasters from the other article to here, and the Canadian disasters from here to the other article. I would accept a merge, but the distinction between those that actually happened in Canada and those that did not must remain.
 * The arguments to delete are either poor or obtuse. Hmm... Redundant with [[List of Canadian disasters... well, that is true, it turns out, inasmuch as that list has entries that do not belong in it: disasters that happened elsewhere. A good point for keeping the article, thanks, a terrible one for deleting it.
 * It is absurd to argue that determining the limits of content is a problem, therefore we should default to List of Canadian...; the same problem exists for both articles, no matter how highly you recommend one of them. Nom asks a rhetorical [[Camel's nose / Boiling frog / Slippery slope question: where do we draw the line? Ignoring the rhetoric for the sake of argument, the answer is, we don't. Not here. This is a discussion for the talk page, where people who actually work on list articles draw the line.
 * Anarchangel (talk) 01:43, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment Just adding to our poor and obtuse comments here, but I don't see the point in removing what you refer to as "non-Canadian disasters" from the other article when a simple rewording would do just as well. The sortable table pretty well shows where they occurred.  It's preferable in any reference to have information in one place, rather than creating multiple articles.  If someone wants to put an asterisk on the ones that you think "do not belong", such as the 24 Canadians killed in New York on 9/11, or the 280 who were killed after the Air India jet left Canadian airspace, that's fine.  For the people who lose loved ones, it's no less tragic if it happened outside territorial limits.  Mandsford 14:49, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.