Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of erotic and sex workers with unnatural death


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  Sandstein  16:06, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

List of erotic and sex workers with unnatural death

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This is a bizarre, strangely-defined, unencyclopedic, POV mess of a list. Suicides, overdoses and murders are mashed together, while deaths the author feels are "clearly unconnected" (implying that the suicides and overdoses were otherwise) with past or present "erotic work" (what?) are to be excluded. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 13:06, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen (talk) 13:09, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen (talk) 13:09, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

(Note: Deleted personal attack. Kirbanzo (talk) 14:11, 27 April 2018 (UTC))
 * Comment - Maybe I mispronounced. It was not intended to attack. Sorry.Guilherme Burn (talk) 17:07, 27 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete/fragment - list is not needed. Either split into separate lists (one for suicides and one for murders, for example) or delete. Kirbanzo (talk) 14:11, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete. For all the above reasons and it's OR. Bondegezou (talk) 16:09, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep - The central idea of the list is to quantify the victims of social stigma against sex workers. So the need to unite deaths like suicide, overdose, homicide, etc. Some links that demonstrate my motivation. Guilherme Burn (talk) 17:05, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
 * These deaths are "victims of social stigma against sex workers" in your opinion. Your motivation is a breach of WP:NPOV and WP:OR, just as those referenced links are opinion pieces/organisations with an agenda. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 00:04, 28 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete Wikipedia is not a place to put forward new synthesises of information, and that is what this is in multiple ways. The above keep vote illustrates why this idea is a horrible one. Wikipedia lists cannot be used to qunatify something as ephemeral as the "social stigma against sex workers" for lots of reasons. To begin with, the vast majority of killings of people involved in the sex trade are no where near notable enough to get an article. In fact, due to the underground and unregulated nature of this industry in many places, even connecting the dots from the fact that the person was murdered to the fact that he or she was involved in making money in exchange for sex is not always going to happen. Next, we should be including in here those Yazidi women who committed suicde rather than be made sex slaves for ISIS fighters, and lots of other things. There may be a worthwhile list here, but Wikipedia is not the place to create it.John Pack Lambert (talk) 23:15, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment - I think there is a place on WP for an article about social stigmatisation of sex workers. I can also see no problem with an article listing sex workers who have had an unnatural death. However combining the two doesn't work imho, and brings us into NPOV and OR. Would suggest splitting the two subjects into two separate article John B123 (talk) 06:44, 28 April 2018 (UTC)
 * STRONG KEEP I think this is a valuable and informative list. This is a subject people are curious about and that is hard to find. It is best they find it all organized on a reliable website such as Wikipedia. I work in the in Pornographic Industry, and I see absolutely no stigmatism or anything else derogatory or against sex workers by this list - just a non-judgemental factual listing of notable Pornstars who have died an untimely death and how. I personally knew four of the people listed - specifically August Ames, Amber Rayne,Yurizan Beltran,and Shyla Stylez (those pictured in the article) - which are all my photos of them. When people learn I'm in the Porn Industry, the thing they always ask me about is the deaths of those pornstars - they want to know if I knew them, what were they like, and how they died. This is something people are very interested in and why this list should remain. Glenn Francis (talk) 03:33, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
 * "Things people ask dudes in the porn industry about" does not equal "encyclopedic topic". And just as we don't list "untimely deaths" in other industries (especially, but not limited to, with the intended implication that their work was linked to their deaths), it isn't appropriate to do so here. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 05:53, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
 * It's not about 'does bar room chit-chat equal encyclopic content'- it's much deeper than that. It's a subject that people are very curious and interested in knowing. I learned things from this list that I didn't know before - and this is my profession. The argument that this kind of list shouldn't be allowed becasue there aren't any other lists exactly like it is weak at best. But since you bring that up, I think maybe there should be.Glenn Francis (talk) 23:50, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
 * There are many lists in Category:Lists of people by cause of death and it's sub-categories including, occupation related, List of entertainers who died during a performance, Sudden cardiac death of athletes and List of journalists killed in the United States. There are also more specialist lists such as List of fatal cougar attacks in North America and List of selfie-related injuries and deaths. As many of the lists have no corresponding articles for other areas or other related lists, it would seem there is a precedent that lists don't need to have similar lists to justify their existence. John B123 (talk) 18:08, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Or - especially in the case of a list mashing together suicides, murders and drug overdoses as "unnatural deaths" and engaging in original research to draw a link to their work - it might suggest that there isn't one for other areas because it's completely inappropriate. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 21:46, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:03, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:04, 2 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete as very unhelpful list, Fails GNG. – Davey 2010 Talk 18:22, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete or redirect to Gratuitous displays of dead women's cleavage. No rational basis for inclusion on or exclusion from the list. Marilyn Monroe shouldn't be on the list (and Jayne Mansfield isn't, but died no more "naturally"); Linda Lovelace should be. Including John Sex is apparently senseless. Dying from HIV-related conditions isn't an "unnatural" death, as the word is generally used.. There are entries for people whose cause of death is unknown or unreported. Just a worthless mess. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006.   (talk) 23:08, 3 May 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.