Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of ethnic group names used as insults


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the debate was keep `'mikka (t) 19:11, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

List of ethnic group names used as insults
Where do I start? Firstly, I think as it stands, this is borderline nonsense. It's not true, and not even verifiable. If someone calls a Bulgarian a "bugger" one time, does it go on this list? It's unmanageable too, not to mention POV. The existence of List of ethnic slurs ought to be enough to satisfy anyone mg e kelly 04:37, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment. I suspect there is a misunderstanding here. If someone calls an Australian a bugger, it is an insult; moreover, the word used as an insult has an interesting etymology: it comes from "Bulgarian", which is an ethnic group name. That is what this list is about; this is very different from ethnic slurs; in the example the fact that the insultee is Australian is entirely irrelevant or (presumably) not the reason why he was insulted, but rather the fact that he finished the bacon from the fridge that I bought for my breakfast. Lambiam Talk 04:58, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * This explains what the criteria for inclusion on this list are better than the page itself does. But most of these words surely are not generic insults. I mean, "Aussie"? Are people really running around calling people "Aussies" for stealing their bacon? mg e kelly 05:03, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Once public awareness that Australians are habitual bacon nabbers reaches a critical threshold, yes, then people might start calling actual or suspected bacon thieves "Aussies", and not as a compliment but by way of insult, something which need not involve ambulatory motion. We haven't quite reached that point yet. But don't say I didn't warn you — you know who you are. --Lambiam Talk 15:53, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete. Listcruft. Zaxem 05:06, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. As an Australian, I haven't heard of Aussie being used as an insult. Capitalistroadster 06:07, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * If you called a New Zealander an Aussie, he'd be insulted ;) Grutness...wha?  06:56, 8 May 2006 (UTC) (delete, BTW)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletions.   -- Capitalistroadster 06:10, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge and delete relvant items to List of ethnic slurs. Aussie is not a relevant item as aussie is never taken by citizens of Australia as an insult. It would only be so in collateral to non-citizens. List name is based on POV and hence cannot stay under its current heading. Ans  e  ll  07:21, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep. Listen a sec, people. The entries Paki, Muzzie and Aussie were added recently, on March 31, 2006, by an anon who apparently did not understand the criterion for inclusion on the list. I've removed them. This list has basically been stable since the end of 2004. If some anon adds the Danube, Drau and Mur to List of rivers of Australia, unaware of the difference between Austria and Australia, that does not make that list nonsense and a candidate for deletion. It is just an erroneous edit like so many, that can be fixed. This is a list with a clear criterion, it is not indiscriminate information, it is obviously never going to be very long, it is not nonsense, and I don't see a good argument why it should be deleted. --Lambiam Talk 09:31, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep The list as Lambiam describes it sounds worth keeping, but it needs to be made clearer on the page itself. Apart from that, if someone called a New Zealander (other than James, of course) an Aussie, I'd be insulted too ;) JPD (talk) 10:19, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep once the basis of the article was explained. Eh? Is "goth" an insult? --Canley 10:44, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes. "Goth n 1: a crude uncouth ill-bred person lacking culture or refinement (syn: peasant, barbarian, boor, churl, Goth, tyke, tike)" http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=goth And in the middle ages, the "Gothic" art was labeled as such as an insult, because they considered it "barbarian". bogdan 10:48, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep. bogdan 10:48, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Week keep. But more useful if in Australia was added to the title? Markb 13:04, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Huh? It doesn't look restricted to Australia to me! Australia has only been mentioned so much in this discussion because someone added "aussie" to the list. JPD (talk) 13:23, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * you are right, my mistake. Markb 17:40, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete as List of ethnic slurs already covers this. --Ezeu 15:42, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Did you read any of the above beyond the nomination? Did you actually look at the article? --Lambiam Talk 15:53, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes I did. --Ezeu 16:03, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Merge to List of ethnic slurs.--Isotope23 16:10, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * (and yes I read the article... "The entries on this list are not "ethnic slurs", which have a separate list..." is pure semantics.)--Isotope23 16:12, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm truly lost here. Isn't semantics supposed to be about the meaning of utterances? So saying it is "pure semantics" is saying that it concerns the meaning of what we are saying, rather than the typography. Is there something wrong with that? Further, do you seriously want to maintain that calling someone who, say, added lots of four-letter words to your user page a "vandal" is an ethnic slur? I say that you are really stretching the meaning of "ethnic slur" beyond reason. But maybe you don't care what words mean, because that is pure semantics. --Lambiam Talk 18:07, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * What I'm saying that that there is no reasonable distinction in my opinion between "ethnic group names used as insults" and "ethnic slurs" despite the editorial claims on the List of ethnic group names used as insults. ; "ethnic group names used as insults" would fall under the canopy of "ethnic slurs". Saying that they are 2 entirely different things is, in my opinion, a semantic division.  I don't see any logical reason being advanced why "ethnic group names used as insults" would not fall under a reasonable definition of "ethnic slurs"... and yes I would consider "vandal" to apply as it is ethnically derived though it has no current ethnic stigma attached to it.  On a side note... I predict a keep for this on at least a "no consensus" so interpretation of the terms is kind of a moot point.--Isotope23 19:58, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * As long as you agree that to say that "asphalt" and "butter" are different things also constitutes a semantic division, there is at least one thing on which we agree. I advise you, though, not to put asphalt on your slice of bread. --Lambiam Talk 21:29, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * That is an entirely different example... it's "apples" and "oranges"... not a simple semantic division. Besides... I take my toast dry.--Isotope23 12:02, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep, do not merge. This topic has nothing to do with slurs for ethnic groups, they are the actual names of ethnic groups which have come into use as general pejorative terms with no racial context.  I'm not a big list fan, but this is an interesting, verifiable, and notable subject.  Obviously, the title is confusing, and there are still some mistakes (kaffir went the other way, becoming an ethnic slur after being coined as a general term for an infidel).  But words like vandal and thug are not ethnic slurs. &mdash; AKADriver  &#x260E;  19:47, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete It is original research, and encourages further additions of original research.  A lexicographer-written or cited article might work, but not this. Ted 19:57, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * comment - how is it original research? The etymologies contained here are verifiable.  Again, these are not racial slurs.  These are the names of ethnic groups that have become words in the English language.  In fact, I change my opinion to Keep and Move to List of ethnic group names that have become English words.  That would stave off the confusion with ethnic slurs, add more interesting etymologies (Bohemian really isn't an insult), and give less encouragement for people to add trivial slurs like "Jew". &mdash; AKADriver  &#x260E;  22:24, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment Many of the entries in this list are not technically insults (and the descriptions are even prefaced as such). I know people can use "Goth" as a pejorative, but I know just as many people self-describe themselves as "Goth" or see it as a positive term.  Moving content to List of ethnic group names that have become English words would make more sense based on the current content of the list if this is indeed kept (which it looks like it will be).--Isotope23 15:48, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
 * strong keep. All votes for merging into ethnic slurs don't unserstand the basic difference: "Bohemian" is not an insult for Bohemians, i.e., Czechs. It is an insult for something else, even not for any ethnicity. The suggestion of AKADriver about renaming/extending the scope is very reasonable, but it doesn't require AfD intervention. However we should be careful with renaming here: the name suggested by AKADriver opens the door to, e.g., Aussie and the ilk, which are out of question in the current article. `'mikka (t) 23:42, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep. Valid and interesting information. Provides encyclopediac source for the historical background of words that are commonly used. KevinPuj 00:09, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep Interesting information. Needs some improvement and expansion.--Nick Y. 01:37, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep to weak keep, I think the topic is fine, but the one problem I have with this is that I'm worried about what the standards for inclusion are. Some of these are certainly well-known, but I see potential for slurcruft --Deville (Talk) 04:21, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep and Move to List of ethnic group names that have become English words, as per AKADriver. Vizjim 16:13, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep and merge as per AKADriver's suggestion. It is correct to say that my intention in creating the page was to list ethnic group names that have come to acquire an alternative meaning, rather than to list insults for specific ethnic groups. Adambisset 14:59, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment – Renaming may be a good idea, but this specific proposal has a problem that the present title also has, which is that it does not suggest that the meaning has changed and that the ethnicity of any designees is irrelevant to the applicability of the terms on the list. Is "Gypsy" in the meaning of Roma/Sinti an English word? One could argue that it is, and then the new title is an invitation to add it. --Lambiam Talk 22:28, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep per above.  Grue   10:17, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete listcruft, POV/edit war magnet, identity politics magnet, and just plain unencyclopedic. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. KleenupKrew 11:33, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong Delete useless POVcruft - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 13:05, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment. I've revised the lead paragraph to better cover the actual list (as well as the intention). The first sentence reads now: "This is a list of words used in the English language whose etymology goes back to the name of some, often historical or archaic, ethnic or religious group, but whose current meaning has lost that connotation and does not imply any actual ethnicity or religion." Perhaps this will inspire someone to come up with a better title for the article. --Lambiam Talk 14:48, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.