Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of exits on Highway 401 (Ontario)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was keep. Can&#39;t sleep, clown will eat me 07:51, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

List of exits on Highway 401 (Ontario)


This article is better suited for Wikinews--after some major editing, that is. Anthony Rupert 19:33, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Bacl-presby 19:49, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * This article has been revised and added to CANPR, and I better say:
 * KEEP!! This article is not here for NEWS, it's a split from the Highway 401 (Ontario) article that is disgustingly long (as is the highway!); As I learn how to do this, in the midst of moving between computers....the initial posting looked terrible (look it up in the history scroll), and Mr Rupert (above) slapped on the Afd....That's all from me!!


 * Keep: it's a split from Highway 401 (Ontario), due to excessive size of the said article. The split was discussed on the talk page and agreed upon. --66.82.9.55 20:36, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep -- it isn't obvious to me what's wrong with this list, and the nomination above makes no sense to me. Jkelly 21:22, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Deletenot encyclopedic. Edison 21:39, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep or Merge back into Highway 401 (Ontario). Kirjtc2 21:50, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep. Why the heck would this content be news, anyway? --  Zanimum 21:54, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep Well structured article about one of Canada's most important highways. Caknuck 22:03, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Say Yes on Proposition 401: Keep This Article Well-structured, legitimately and agreed-to split from an already large article. TTV (MyTV|PolygonZ|Green Valley) 23:32, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep - as per above (e.g. invalid news claim); also in keeping with WP:SIZE Dl2000 00:33, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * also... note precedents for exit list articles e.g. Exit List of Interstate 96 in Michigan, List of exits on Interstate 5
 * Delete pure, boring, have-we-reached-Kingston-yet roadcruft. Certainly don't send it to Wikinews. Eusebeus 00:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails WP:NOT; WP:V via WP:RS; apparent failure of WP:OR. Wikipedia is not a travel guide, as per WP:NOT. An article on Highway 401 (Ontario) is fine in principle (though the current version also has travel guide elements at the moment), but this article is essentially a road atlas section or list. In addition, the sole source for the article (all the footnotes point to one website - look in the edit version of the article) is an amateur website hosted on AOL, which makes an unsupported claim to be based on official documentation. This website seems to be operated by one guy.The webpage gives much detail but there is only one clear reference are provided by this webpage (for the quote at the bottom). Moreover, this source is only cited for a handful of information points in the article. It may be argued that the main article Highway 401 (Ontario) provides reliable references as the exit list was spun off from here. But it doesn't - the article has a collection of external links (references section is currently blank), of which there are two which have extensive detailed information that seem to support the exits table. The first is the AOL amateur site mentioned previously. The second is onthighways.com - a website run by  university student who says "The content of this site is based both on Road Maps, and my own personal knowledge of the area.". This key main source also fails WP:V via WP:RS/WP:OR. I don't see any other sources in these two articles supporting this exit list. Bwithh 01:02, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment: It's a list of freeway exits. It isn't a guide to heart surgery or an accounting of historical events that could be disputed. Most likely it was created by a guy looking at a map or taken from a website where the list was made from same. You aren't going to find books on this subject. And the likelihood of someone making up information on something as mundane as this is pretty slim. You might find yourself at odds with many other articles in the quoted WikiProject if you feel otherwise. 23skidoo 06:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Response Unfortunately, relying on amateur websites such as these goes against WP:V and WP:OR, which are core content policies: "The principles upon which these policies are based are non-negotiable on the English Wikipedia and cannot be superseded by other policies or guidelines, nor by editors' consensus."; "The principles upon which these policies are based are negotiable only at the Foundation level." Bwithh 09:55, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The Ministry of Transportation of Ontario's Official Road map of Ontario: should suffice as a reliable source.  I've cross referenced all of the exits, which are all on the map, except the Wonderland road potential exit is not listed -- Samir धर्म  01:31, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep. Main article on this major highway got too long, hence spinning out the content was entirely logical. --JJay 01:44, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep as part of an established WikiProject, and as a spin-off created by consensus. 23skidoo 06:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep many precedents on highway exit lists. Personally, I think they're encyclopedic.  I think I have exits 375 to 721 memorized from the number of times I've driven it -- Samir धर्म  09:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep. As i am the founder of the Canada Roads Wikiproject, doesn't my vote count?Mitchazenia (7600+edits) 19:41, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep. We have exit lists... why would this be news anyway? --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 01:26, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Because it sounds like a traffic report. Don't they show those on the news? Anthony Rupert 02:49, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * By that logic, should Toronto Maple Leafs be deleted because they're mentioned in sports reports? —C.Fred (talk) 04:54, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * That is extremely weak reasoning. Iraq sounds like the news... does that mean we should move that to Wikinews too? --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 04:55, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * That's not the same thing, and you know it.
 * Also, if you were paying attention, I nominated the article for deletion because its initial version was so badly formatted that it was rather incomprehensible; that, and then it wasn't made clear that it was part of a WikiProject. When I learned that it was part of a project, you'll notice that I didn't say anything else about it deserving deletion. I even apologized. Anthony Rupert 10:25, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * "News" and "exit lists" are not the same thing. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 23:14, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

And thanks for the apology, Mr Rupert; trust you accept mine! Bacl-presby 23:04, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep. Similar articles exist for other major roads (I-5 is one that comes to mind), and I see no harm in keeping this one. As for the "move to Wikinews" nom...I fail to see the connection. -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 04:51, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong keep. Exit lists are a useful encyclopedic resource. The only other possible fate I could see is merger back into the article on the 401, but the exit list is 35 kB long, which would bring the main article way over the rule-of-thumb of 30 kB or less. —C.Fred (talk) 04:54, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment I cite Articles for deletion/I-95 exit list. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 04:56, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment--so, there was no consenus on I-95 edit list's Afd; how about here??....Moderators!!
 * Keep The 401 is arguable the most notable highway in all of Canada (along with the TCH and the Yellowhead). There was no consensus on the other AFD, so no precedence set. -Royalguard11 (Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 23:34, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Highway exit lists are valid content on a highway's article, but they are never encyclopedic enough in their own right to merit splitting out from the main article. And I'm simply not convinced that something that doesn't deserve its own separate article in the first place should be granted its own separate article just because a consensus existed to ignore the fact that the topic doesn't actually deserve its own separate article. For one thing, 32K is a guideline, not an inviolable rule which automatically mandates splitting out subtopics regardless of whether they merit separate articles in their own right or not. Splitting is not an "anything goes" proposition — there are things that are sufficiently encyclopedic topics in their own right to warrant splitting from the main article and things that aren't; a highway's exit list is the latter. But at the same time, Wikinews was a bad suggestion; an exit list isn't news. Merge back into Highway 401 (Ontario) and consider alternate ways to reorganize the article if the size is still viewed as an issue. Oh, and by the way, that's exactly the result that was obtained the last time this was split out — see Articles for deletion/Interchanges on Ontario provincial highway 401, which actually makes this an instant CSD G4. Bearcat 00:18, 27 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.