Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of family relations in American football


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was KEEP. postdlf (talk) 15:16, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

List of family relations in American football

 * – ( View AfD View log )

This is an unreadable, unmaintainable, and completely unsourced list that purports to be of related players and coaches in American football. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, which includes "long and sprawling lists of statistics". B (talk) 21:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:54, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:54, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete Neutral aside from the reasons given above (to which I agree), there are no sources to support the information. And since many of these on the list are living, we have serious WP:BLP issues to consider--even before we get to any notability issues or maintenence issues.--Paul McDonald (talk) 17:07, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment - I know it's a case of WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, but the long-established List of association football families of note could be used as a template to improve this article. GiantSnowman 17:14, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep. The article needs sourcing and could use some clearer criteria, but such familial lists strike me as being notable, verifiable, and encyclopedic.  There are similar lists for many other sports.  See List of family relations in the NHL, List of rugby league families, List of association football families of note, List of second-generation Major League Baseball players, List of boxing families, List of family relations in professional wrestling, List of professional sports families, and even List of chess families. Rather than deleting these lists, some thought should be given to determining how to improve them, perhaps taking the best elements from each to develop a good template for a sport-by-sport family lists. Or perhaps limiting the lists to siblings and direct lineage (children, parents, grandparents) or participants in the sport at the highest level.  For example, here's a well-sourced list of 187 sets of fathers and sons who played in the NFL.  And here's another well-sourced list of 335 sets of brothers who played in the NFL. Cbl62 (talk) 22:41, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * As for the notability of the topic, I recall seeing many articles over the years discussing the prevalence of family relations at the top levels of athletics. While I don't have time right now to search for them, here's one such article from The New York Times: Dad-Son Duos Run Up the Score. See also Greatest father-son combos from ESPN.com. Cbl62 (talk) 22:58, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Changing to neutral. I can see the value and the notability, but there needs to be some changes in this article for other policy reasons.--Paul McDonald (talk) 02:43, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:01, 22 February 2011 (UTC) Category:Relisted AfD debates
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J04n(talk page) 04:32, 1 March 2011 (UTC) Category:Relisted AfD debates
 * Keep per references above, and don't forget political families.
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Comment: Although, as this discussion now stands, consensus is to keep, I decided to relist the debate. The fact that it contains dozens of living people and zero sources should be addressed. If anyone wants the article moved to their userspace so as to gradually add sources I would be happy to make that move. J04n(talk page) 04:40, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 13:14, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep - this is not the only this kind of article. See Category:Sports families. So why to delete only 1 of them? Pelmeen10 (talk) 23:15, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Severe rewrite needed. Even if adequate sourcing can be found, this article needs a major rewrite. It's difficult to tell what it's trying to say. Here's a quick list of basic things I think need to be done before this article is anywhere near a decent level:
 * More concise entries! Instead of listing everything each person has done, cut it down to one or two major things (or simply none at all and simply list their roles; they are linked to the appropriate articles, after all) and remove the last name from the beginning. An example listing would be "Alex Agase (player and head coach) and Lou Agase (assistant coach)" or something like that.
 * Do "twins" really need to be separated from "brothers"? It's an interesting side note, but it could easily be added as a note to the end of their entry in the brothers section. For example: "Tiki Barber (running back) and Ronde Barber (cornerback), twins".
 * Alphabetization!
 * Standard format. The beginning is all constant, but the cousins and in-laws sections have a different format. I like the in-laws section the most, quite frankly, and think it should be adopted for the rest of the page.
 * Anyway, that would at least help a little. A table (such as the one used in List of family relations in the NHL) would be MUCH easier on the eyes, too. Fletch the Mighty (talk) 16:59, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.