Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of famous Tarkhans


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was keep. The article does not violate any policies, it has been renamed as suggested by some, and the criteria for inclusion is implicit, as is the case with similar lists. This is a case for cleanup, not deletion. --Ezeu 19:27, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

List of famous Tarkhans
Wikipedia is not a indiscriminate list of information per precedents: Articles for deletion/Famous Telugu Brahmins, Articles for deletion/List of Famous Reddys etc.

The prod was removed by User:Sbei78, whose only contributions are removing prod from caste-based lists (in short, the account was created only for this purpose). The reason given by Sbei78 is that there are lists like List of Scientologists, so this list should be kept as well. I would like to point out that List of Scientologists is a fully-cited list.

On the other hand, this is an Unverifiable list. The argument that "lists can be verified later" doesn't go down, because the list has been existing for a long time now, and nobody has bothered to provide a single citation or source. There is no way of verifying these entries except relying on information from personal users, most of whom are hell-bent on adding every other famous person to list of their caste, which essentially means POV.

Please don't blindly vote keep/merge. None of the users who voted Keep last for List of famous Nairs time have bothered to cleanup or verify the list. The only user who tried that, voted Delete next time. Other similar lists might exist, because they are verifiable. This one is not.

Also please note that this is not one of those "systemic bias" cases, because the nominator (myself) is from India. Strong Delete. utcursch | talk 08:53, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletions. utcursch | talk 09:00, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete WP:NOT QuiteUnusual 13:39, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Comment I am not able to understand why this is not verifiable.   Doctor Bruno    13:52, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The surnames don't always indicate caste (for eg. Mira Nair is Punjabi). Except OBCs, SC/STs, castes don't exist officially -- so, there are few official sources. The only sources are the personal sources or magazines/websites run by caste-based organizations. Also, please note that many people (esp. nationalists) that editors have categorized as "Famous Bhumihars" or "Nairs" do not believe in caste system and don't consider themselves as Bhumihars or Nairs. utcursch | talk 10:22, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Strong Keep This article cannot be deleted because there are:

--Sbei78 20:54, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * List of Scientologists
 * List of famous left-handed people
 * List of English people
 * List of Iranians
 * List of Hispanics
 * List of English people
 * List of Scots
 * List of Welsh people
 * List of Northern Ireland people
 * List of Cornish people
 * List of Black Britons
 * List of British Asians
 * List of British Jews
 * Note: User's only contributions are removing prod from and voting keep for these lists. utcursch | talk 03:03, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Moreover, to say it is not a valid list because it is not cited it is completely wrong because below lists are not cited.

--Sbei78 21:30, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * List of English people (not cited)
 * List of Scots (not cited)
 * List of Welsh people (not cited)
 * List of British Asians (not cited)
 * List of Northern Ireland people (not cited)
 * The existence of one article doesn't always mean that similar articles should exist. utcursch | talk 03:03, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete If members of this caste have Wikipedia articles in their own right, then link via a category if the membership is documented in the article. The list would by definition be incomplete.Edison 16:10, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete No criteria for inclusion, no sourcing. See WP:INN for the explanation of why Sbei78's argument is just plain wrong.  GRBerry 15:29, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom or Rename to List of Tarkhans. The word "famous" is inherently POV, as has been discussed many times before.  There is no way this list should be allowed to remain with its current name.  And there are far too many indiscriminate, unverifiable lists on WP already. The argument that we should have more bad lists because of existing bad lists is futile per GRBerry.  We don't keep spam just because there are other spam articles that have yet to be deleted.  I find the precedents cited by nom compelling, and think deletion is the best option.  Conversion to category is possible too (maybe even preferable to renaming), but the word "famous", in any case, absolutely must go!  Xtifr tälk 20:05, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment article now renamed, "famous" has been dropped per wiki naming convention Ohconfucius 06:16, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment step in the right direction, but for me, the real deciding factor is, "castes don't exist officially -- so, there are few official sources." To me, that puts it right in the same category as List of middle-class people or List of rednecks, and not in the same category as verifiable lists like List of Scientologists or List of Welsh people.  Xtifr tälk 22:32, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Rename per wiki convention and Keep but add references and claen upRaveenS 19:10, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.