Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of famous smokers (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was delete. --Core desat 03:55, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

List of famous smokers
AfDs for this article: 
 * – (View AfD) (View log)

This is a list page. Some lists are "interesting" or "encyclopedic" but I do not believe that this specific list is any good. Wikipedia is not a indiscriminate collection of information. The majority of the entries are unsourced, which also leads to possible WP:BLP violations. Many of those with sources are rather unreliable. Unclear what constitutes a smoker - e.g., Bill Clinton is listed because he 'tried it but "never inhaled"'! (By that logic, I'm a smoker, however I would object strongly to being labelled a smoker.) Mdwh 16:28, 1 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment Also see overwhelming consensus at Articles for deletion/List of self-harmers (yes, I appreciate I opposed deletion there, but that was based on existing lists such as this one; I think the response in that debate makes it clear that we need to start cleaning up "List of people" type articles, and this article has far more unsourced/dubious entries). Also suggested was that we can't take claims by the person in question as a reliable source, and a large number of the sources for this article fall into this category. Mdwh 16:31, 1 July 2007 (UTC)


 *  Comment Also we have the issue of fictional smokers. Possibly see Articles_for_deletion/List_of_fictional_characters_with_phobias, Articles_for_deletion/List_of_fictional_characters_missing_an_appendage, Articles for deletion/List of fictional self-harmers (although I appreciate that smoking may be more well-defined, only slightly I think - e.g., does a single puff count?) Mdwh 16:41, 1 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Smoke it (i.e. DELETE) - First of all, this article, like many "List of famous X" articles, has the issue of the fact that "fame" is subjective. Also, the page contradicts itself; it says at the top that the people on this list all have smoking as part of their public image somehow (i.e. Groucho's cigar, FDR's cigarette holder, Sherlock's pipe, etc.), and yet the list has pretty much every celebrity who has ever smoked anything. Furthermore, we've got serious WP:BLP issues here, especially since this article includes "cannabis smokers." --Hnsampat 17:00, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Indiscriminate, unmaintainable list. --Akhilleus (talk) 17:38, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete - this is a directory of loosely associated topics with a vague and arbitrary standard of inclusion. Otto4711 18:51, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete I voted in the 2nd nomination, and I still think this is an indiscriminate list whose time has come. Shalom Hello 20:14, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. See also Articles for deletion/List of smokers which begat Articles for deletion/List of iconic smokers resulting in latest 3 AfDs. Pavel Vozenilek 21:23, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep Pardon the pun, but I see some Merit in this one. The title sucks, practically a magnet for deletion, but it's well-reasearched; and it's a good example of how attitudes towards smoking have changed over the years, from the era when celebrities took pride in what brand they smoked, to now, when smoking is considered, once again, a nasty habit.  The additional information about which of these icons developed lung cancer, emphysema, etc. is useful (yeah, I know folks here hate "useful") as a deterrent to smokers.  This will probably get crushed out on its second go-round, but I urge the author(s) to light another one.  Mandsford 21:36, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Slight chance it could work as "List of iconic smokers", which would include Churchill, Groucho, Sherlock Holmes and maybe Audrey Hepburn, but right now it is just an indiscriminate list of famous people who also happen to smoke. Clarityfiend 21:54, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Attempts following the first AfD to keep the list reasonably pruned were resisted. Watching this page, it appears to be a dumping ground for a random collection of individuals, some famous, some not so famous, who smoke or smoked (as who among us has not) and who it occurs to someone to add. For instance: someone decided to add all the members of The Donnas. If the criteria is to be "as famous as the bass player for The Donnas", (and "smokes or smoked"), the list could be expanded to hundreds of thousands of entries. Herostratus 01:50, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Carlossuarez46 18:31, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete Not useful information, not deserving of its own page. There are millions of smokers around the world and to create a list that everyday grows and shrinks even if they are "famous" does not seem relevant.  If anything this list could be used for propaganda purposes which is not the intent of the wiki project.--70.179.173.149 05:49, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom., and above comments in agreement.--JayJasper 12:51, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletions.   -- John Vandenberg 13:59, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.