Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of fictional British and Irish universities


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. I'm closing this as Keep and editors can have a Move discussion on the article talk page (or be bold). Liz Read! Talk! 05:49, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

List of fictional British and Irish universities

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

This subject does not have WP:SIGCOV in reliable independent sources. An WP:INDISCRIMINATE list of fictional locations. Another list that is WP:OR in both content and in the synthesis of "fictional X that are also Y and Z." Jontesta (talk) 05:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Jontesta (talk) 05:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. I think this is an obvious delete, and there is no List of fictional universities and colleges to merge to. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 05:52, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Ireland and United Kingdom. –LaundryPizza03 ( d  c̄ ) 05:52, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 05:52, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Education-related deletion discussions. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 05:53, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete - There are no sources included in the article that cover the topic of fictional British/Irish universities as a group or set - the closest this article has are a series of joke articles from the same website. The only entry here that actually has its own article is the Unseen University, which isn't actually even in Britain or Ireland. Fails WP:LISTN, appears to be peppered throughout with WP:OR, and probably runs afoul of being WP:INDISCRIMINATE. Rorshacma (talk) 06:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Move to List of fictional universities and expand to cover the subject generally. BD2412  T 19:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Move to List of fictional universities as suggested above by BD2412T and possibly implied by LaundryPizza03. A quick search shows a number of articles on fictional universities as a group, so that would appear to pass WP:LISTN. The main problem here is that it's a non-encyclopedic WP:CROSSCAT, but as that can be solved by removing the cross-category element that seems to be the obvious solution. Robminchin (talk) 21:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep and Move to List of fictional universities — per BD2412 and Robminchin. I believe fictional universities as a group enjoy sufficient coverage; a move makes sense. As it stands, the current article fails WP:LISTN. GhostOfNoMeme 16:29, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I have changed my preference to Move. This should be at List of fictional universities. I don't agree with merging to List of fictional schools — "school" in British English does not refer to universities, so WP:COMMONALITY applies. GhostOfNoMeme 09:08, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep or Move to List of fictional universities. COI: I created this list, inspired by a conversation at an Academic Archers conference where the University of Felpersham was mentioned and we wondered what other fictional (British) universities existed. I initially drafted it as "List of fictional English universities" but broadened it to UK and Ireland, because that's the area whose literature, film/tv and higher education I'm familiar with. I can see good reasons for broadening the scope to be international, but it will require some careful attention to scope and standards of list items. A column for "Country" will be needed. Entries for many non-UK&I institutions will need to be added, and the borderline of what is a university as opposed to a college will need to be defined, allowing for problems of ENGVAR. In the list at Lists of fictional locations, this list is shown as a subdivision of "List of schools", while in British English "schools" are what comes before Further Education or Higher Education (or in some cases are divisions of a university, or entities such as the London School of Economics!) The existing List of fictional schools includes some universities (and is almost entirely unsourced, except for the schools of magic).


 * I'm disappointed to see this list described as WP:OR, as every list item and statement is sourced. I would be sorry to see that level of care and sourcing diluted in the move to internationalise the list, but am also fearful that if it is simply moved it will be criticised as failing to represent the whole world, tagged as Globalise. Perhaps that is OK, as a nudge to editors to join in expanding its coverage. I wouldn't call it WP:INDISCRIMINATE either, as it has very clear inclusion criteria and aims for completeness. At present its title is quite clear about its scope, and it has aimed to be comprehensive within that (ie it includes every sourced fictional UK&Ireland university which has been discovered by me or other contributors, plus a couple of culturally-British extragalactic ones).


 * There are certainly other sources listing non-UK&I fictional universities: 21 US colleges here, 25 here (largely overlapping), 30 "fictional schools" here (mostly high schools, couple of elementary schools, but a few universities or colleges), a top ten here which includes both UK and US institutions, while this 2015 account of Borchester was to be the first of a week of "Great fictional universities" but I can't find the others. Those sources are all dominated by recent films and tv: the existing list is strong on literature, from Thomas Hardy onwards. Perhaps another column for "medium" (book/play/tv/radio/film) would be useful too.


 * There may well be lists of fictional universities in American (and other) novels. Some of the titles in Campus novel may yield list entries (eg I find that Pnin is set in Waindell College), and some of the sources at Campus novel may be fruitful. (Though the first one turns out only to be a book review, of the useful-sounding The American College Novel: an annotated bibliography). Though of course fictional universities are not confined to Campus Novels (Felpersham is from a radio series).


 * TLDR: To sum up: yes, by all means expand it to international coverage but with care so that it maintains its thorough sourcing and careful construction (eg sortkeys in column 1); a column for "country" and perhaps one for "medium" would be useful additions.


 * Sorry to be longwinded here, but I do, naturally, feel somewhat protective of this list as its creator and a major contributor. Pam  D  20:07, 15 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Merge to List of fictional schools. No need for two lists. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:17, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The use of "school" to refer to a tertiary institution is an Americanism, so this violates WP:COMMONALITY. And that's a much poorer article in any case. Non-British Isles universities on that list should be moved to this article after renaming. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:16, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Good point regarding WP:COMMONALITY. I agree with a move to List of fictional universities and a transfer of the universities from List of fictional schools. The latter article should make this separation clear. GhostOfNoMeme 11:19, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 10:12, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Move to List of fictional universities and expand. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:16, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Move to List of fictional universities which I am pretty sure is a topic fullfilling WP:LISTN, and expand by other contries, as has pointed to. Daranios (talk) 15:20, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename to List of fictional universities afterwards, to preserve what we have here as basis for an article with expanded scope which I expect fullfills WP:LISTN just fine. Daranios (talk) 16:35, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Draftify and then accommodate the changes made by with generalized scope, I guess, would be fine for me as a way to go through with this. Whatever the technicalities, I believe there is a way to go to put the suggestions of the majority to preserve and adapt the content to a renamed list as suggested by a majority here into practice. That said, after another look and given the differences in educational systems, the split by country seems much less a synthesis than I originally thought, as most easily accessible English secondary sources seem to feature US-American and/or British universities. It will be interesting if some from other countries will be found in the end. Daranios (talk) 10:15, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment A closer can't close a discussion as a Move. If this is your choice, please make an argument to Keep and then a Move can be discussed after this AFD is closed. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 23:48, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
 * That's sort of taken as read! -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:45, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Draftify If it's going to be expanded, it should happen in the near future. Otherwise, it's too over-specific to remain there, as I don't think that particular subset of fictional universities passes WP:LISTN. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 13:22, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment I've drafted a possible new version of the main list, ready for international expansion, at User:PamD/new-unis. Two new columns, and no longer any need to explain the Britishness of the three extraterrestrial institutions. Any comments, from editors suggesting keep-and-move?  Pam  D  22:42, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * This keeps getting more interesting. Thanks for the draft, it looks good to me! It just needed an introduction, which I have tried to start, and some new phrasing of inclusion criterea. And if that's the way to go, one needed to solve the question how to get the histories together. Presumably drafty this list, and then replace the content by 's draft, which is based on the list here. Daranios (talk) 10:15, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't think draftifying would be a useful step. If the closer of this AfD decides to Keep the list, then the next step would be to move it to the suggested new title, alter the wording of the lead appropriately, and amend the main list. I think the move would be uncontroversial, and it could be done immediately. My draft new version of the main table is a suggestion: I would be happy to contribute to the internationalisation of the list by pasting the revised code over the existing table.
 * While I don't want to be guilty of WP:OWNing this article, I am the person most familiar with its existing content and structure (and will keep an eye on it in future to maintain the standards of sortability and sourcing). Pam  D  10:32, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Ah, yeah, whatever works to get there. As above, it's all just technicalities, I believe all keep and move !votes want to have the same end results at this point. Daranios (talk) 15:21, 18 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Notice I have notified a relevant WikiProject at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Higher education: I believe this is Appropriate notification rather than Canvassing. Pam  D  22:56, 17 July 2024 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.