Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of fictional Scots (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. I see a consensus to Keep this article. Just an aside, the the Delete decision in that other AFD mentioned seems like it could be contested at Deletion Review. Liz Read! Talk! 01:40, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

List of fictional Scots
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

I don’t see any benefit to having a list for this topic, especially the horribly arbitrary “Scots who were or maybe were real but have appeared in fiction” section. “Scottish people in fiction and legend” is likely a notable topic but lists are never good ways to discuss abstract things educationally. Dronebogus (talk) 09:00, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete as far too broad to be useful. You could include the characters from every novel, TV series, movie, etc. set in Scotland, just to begin with. Clarityfiend (talk) 11:18, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Lists,  and Scotland.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 11:30, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep Needs more categorization by media, as there are fantasy and sci-fi characters mixed in with ones from standard fiction. However, the basis behind the list is sound, and lists and categories do not necessarily rule each other out. WP:SURMOUNTABLE applies - deletion is not cleanup, which is what this article needs. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 19:06, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Weak delete - I have some sympathy for the idea behind the article, I am not sure this can ever be a useful list given the sheer numbers of fictional Scots in centuries of literature and other forms of fiction. Dunarc (talk) 22:57, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep Only notable entries are listed of course. Far more information available in a navigational list than the category for this. Category:Fictional Scottish people   D r e a m Focus  14:00, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep. Ironically, these lists are great for deletionists. As our Categories guideline notes:
 * An embedded list, one incorporated into an article on a topic, can include entries which are not sufficiently notable to deserve their own articles, and yet may yet be sufficiently notable to incorporate into the list. Furthermore, since the notability threshold for a mention is less than that for a whole article, you can easily add a mention to a list within an article, without having to make the judgment call on notability which you would need to make if you were to add a whole article—if someone else feels that it is notable enough, they can always linkify the mention and create an article anyway.
 * For now, this list is reasonable in length. If it gets too long in the future, it can be broken up into multiple lists (List of fictional Scots in books, List of fictional Scots in film, etc.)
 * -- A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 03:13, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Relisting. But the deletion rationale boils down to WP:WEDONTNEEDIT which is not a strong argument for deleting an article. More connection to policy would help both sides be more convincing. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:31, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep - The nominator didn't really cite any rules here to justify the deletion.KatoKungLee (talk) 17:23, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment I was asked to cite more actual rules, so WP:MILL per Clarityfiend (there’s lots and lots of works set in Scotland for starters) WP:NOTDIR, and WP:TNT. Dronebogus (talk) 00:33, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * To clarify, this violates WP:SALAT as "too broad in scope". (That's why there are no other "List of fictional [random nationality] characters".) Clarityfiend (talk) 05:34, 25 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep. We have many arrangements of information about aspects of cultural history, and this seems like a perfectly fine addition to that catalog. BD2412  T 01:43, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep. I don't think there's any question that this meets LISTN, in that fictional treatments of Scottish people are a widely discussed topic (here's a whole book). The lack of similar lists is largely the consequence of the excesses of deletionists of the past, e.g. the list of fictional New Zealanders was deleted despite what can only be described as a total lack of consensus. As to other authorities cited above, the grotesque elitism of the MILL essay has thankfully never become Wikipedia policy, the TNT essay would require an actual showing that the list has problems that are unfixable, and WP:NOTDIR contains no applicable provisions that I can identify. -- Visviva (talk) 17:56, 25 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.