Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of fictional self-harmers (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was delete. Mango juice talk 15:54, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

List of fictional self-harmers (2nd nomination)
AfDs for this article:  To have any content at all, this list would have to rely on editors' personal observations and conclusions on characters in works of fiction. As "common sense" as it would be to declare a character a self-harmer, this list does not belong on Wikipedia, also because the characters by themselves are generally not notable enough to warrant their own articles (as many of these characters have not been analyzed or featured by themselves in the media as standalone subjects). Blueaster 17:38, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete this ridiculously subjective list. How much self-defeating or injurious behavior is required to qualify as a "self-harmer"? Doczilla 19:03, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete - Agree, this is remarkably subjective. It'd be less subjective to have a List of fictional self-cutters.  Also, I suspect this would quickly become unmaintainable. --  Y&#124; yukichigai (ramble argue check) 00:03, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Self-harm is the criteria for being on the list, a proccess described on self-harm (now moved to self-injury) as "deliberate injury inflicted by a person upon his or her own body. [...] A broader definition can also include the phenomenon of those who inflict harm on their bodies by means of disordered eating, or compulsive tattooing or body piercing or impulsive non-lethal injuring. [...] Self-injury is usually not associated with an attempt at suicide; the person who self-injures is not usually seeking to end his or her own life, but is instead hoping to cope with or relieve unbearable emotional pain or discomfort." This is the definition that the list is based on. --OGoncho 00:18, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * And it's excessively broad. How much deliberate injury is necessary to qualify? For instance, why is Harry Potter on the list? Doczilla 00:33, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I suppose because of a punishment in which he is forced to write lines while his hand is cut with each stroke. I would not think that qualifies, as he does it as more of a "FU, government," kind of thing. Perhaps insisting on references like page numbers, descriptions of scenes, or transcripts would help (as long as we're careful to keep the crufty stuff out). --OGoncho 18:14, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually it's accurate about the house elf Dooby who punishes himself repeatedly, for example by hitting himself over the head. --Nate 09:17, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Delete per nom. Yes, why is Harry Potter on the list? But only for the book version, not the film. Plasticbottle 05:27, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep Important topic, with many articles from reliable sources as evidenced by the works in the list. Does not seem triggery. There is no element of personal observations or original research in the selection, since the book reviews will describe explicitly that the works properly included in the list are about self-harm. Not all the works are fiction; some are important nonfiction works about dealing with the problem. Edison 05:41, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * "Importance" doesn't have anything to do with WP notability; plus, there is only one source listed, which is a collaborative project, and therefore not reliable for our usage. In addition, this list is very poorly defined, because we do not know whether items included should be characters who habitually hurt themselves with intent to harm, characters who habitually put themselves into dangerous situations, characters who accidently harm themselves, or characters who at one point harmed themselves. In addition, you can't just assume that the same observation which would warrant inclusion into this list (that a character has commited self-harm) has been made by a non-trivial paper or review. And even still, if some definition of this list can be aggreed upon, it will still be highly debatable whether or not that definition should be used over another. Blueaster 21:18, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * merge - Self-injury in popular culture is also AfD at the moment could secondarily cited examples be used to combine the two? one comment on non notable characters, would it be sensible to restrict the list to only those with there own article or where it forms a major part of the story, e.g. The Secretary or Girl Interrupted --Nate 09:08, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.