Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of films featuring a final girl


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. This list features no reliable sources, and can be considered original research. We already have far too many useless lists with no encyclopedic value. seicer &#x007C;  talk  &#x007C;  contribs  03:41, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

List of films featuring a final girl

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This article serves no encyclopedic purpose. First off, the term "final girl" was invented by a single author, and has not gained any sort of mainstream acceptance as an actual term. That author uses the term to promote a feminist theory about horror films, so to list a movie as fitting it is to suggest a POV. They are all original research of the person who adds them to this list. The author, in fact, says that the "final girl" does not have to be the final victim/sole survivor in the horror movie or even a girl: the term is nebulous so she can pick and choose only those examples that fit her theory. Even if we were to assume that the term is real, and not ubject to debate over its meaning or POV pushing in applying it, there' no reason for WIkipedia to have an article just listing them all -- if the theory is correct, then it's just a list of slasher movies, and those are all already handled elsewhere by categories and so forth. DreamGuy (talk) 18:29, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete A POV list. There are also no WP:RS to determine what goes on this list.  So in effect this is an article with no notability, sources, or anything.  By any measure, it needs to go.  Note the Final Girl page has been correctly redirected to the theory creator, but that makes no sense for this.Obina (talk) 19:33, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete and consider nominating Carol J. Clover (who supposedly created the concept of "Final Girl, and whom the term redirects to) as well. Umbralcorax (talk) 20:02, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Boston (talk) 20:57, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete this belongs on TVTropes, not here. Also, there's an article at Final girl again; undid the revert. JuJube (talk) 21:15, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, because it isn't a concept that only Clover employs. Even a modicum of research reveals several critics who acknowledge, employ, expand, and critique this idea.  (Elizabeth Ezra in ISBN 9780252075223 expands on the idea to assert that Call in Alien Resurrection is a final girl, for example.) However that same research also shows that a bare list such as this is impossible to maintain in a neutral manner.  That is because if final girl were a more finished article, it would tell the reader about the disputes that critics have, amongst themselves, over which characters in film and on television actually constitute final girls.  (Christine Cornea in ISBN 9780748616428 disputes Clover's characterization of Ripley as a final girl, for example.) A list of examples such as in this article is useless to readers, because it doesn't properly reflect critical thought on this subject.  It's cargo cult encyclopaedia article writing.  However, final girl has scope for expansion and presentation of other points of view in addition to solely Clover's.  That other article's problem is neutrality and lack of a rounded treatment of the subject that informs the reader about views other than that of the inventor of the idea, and what other people have added to the discussion of the subject since it escaped its creator, not existence. Uncle G (talk) 01:21, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete as an indiscriminate list. Though the article doesn't explain this, a "final girl" is apparently someone's term for the last person left alive in a horror film where one person after another dies-- obviously a female.  I don't know that we need to do our own parallel to a horror film; it will be ironic if this article is deleted, then Final girl is deleted, then Carol J. Clover is on the phone and they say, "We traced the call and it's coming from inside your building...hello? hello?" Mandsford (talk) 21:19, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * obviously a female? could you explain why the last person alive must obviously be a female, or why a horror film must necessarily end with one person & only one left alive? Many do, of course, as explained by the corresponding article & elucidated by the list. DGG (talk) 04:26, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep Why not eh?. Looks like a pretty good list, Just add the uncompleated list box to the top.Curttrfc (talk) 22:22, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment The Final Girl article needs alot of improvment Curttrfc (talk) 22:26, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. I've nothing against the Final Girl article (though more evidence of the term actually being used would be nice), but this list, is just too crufty for its own good. I hate calling "cite sources" when referring to a list in which the films cited can provide verification, however as I have doubt as to whether the term "final girl" is widely used, there is therefore possible interpretation issues (WP:SYNTH) regarding creating a list of this nature. I've no objecttion to a few notable examples being included in the article in question. 23skidoo (talk) 01:18, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * See above for both evidence of this concept escaping its creator and a reason that editors just watching films, forming personal opinions, and adding original research to Wikipedia won't properly inform the reader as to actual published critical thought on this subject. &#9786;  Uncle G (talk) 01:28, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep The notability of the concept is clear from the examples, and vice versa. Whether the two articles should be combined, can be discussed later. I actually wasnt aware of this explicitly before this discussion--but looking at this list explains it quite well. Why
 * Keep Concept is notable and was notable before the term was coined. Perhaps merge list with Final Girl article. I'm basing this on this list being a small subset of Horror/Slasher movies. If it turns out to be most, I would change my vote. RoyLeban (talk) 06:24, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete The article on Final girl is sketchy enough, but this list is over-reaching original research (O-R OR). 66.57.190.166 (talk) 06:51, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep but trim to only those that have been described as such in reliable sources. It seems the definition of who is and is not a final girl makes the inclusion of most of these films original research, but a sourced list could be built from the sources UncleG has identified. JulesH (talk) 08:39, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete: some valid examples are fitting in the final girl article itself, but an OR list of everything a Wikipedian thinks might meet this definition is not an encyclopedia article. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 18:26, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep: I found this list and the 'Final Girl' entry to be very helpful. This concept is understood in the entertainment industry and if the list is accurate, let it be.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Planetprods (talk • contribs) 00:00, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Original research. Show me a reliable source that lists these films and I may reconsider. -- Mattinbgn\talk 01:16, 13 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.