Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of flags featuring one or more stars and the colors red, blue, and white

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete.

The community consensus was clearly for deletion with 19 people unconvinced by any of the arguments in favor of keeping it. I count only one "keep as is", 3 "keep as redirect or merge" and one that was too ambiguous to call.

Phil is correct that the merger which happened while the discussion was on-going complicates the decision. This is exactly why we strongly discourage any mergers while the discussion is in progress. In order to preserve the attribution history, I am going to copy-paste the history into the Talk page for Gallery of flags by design which is, I think, the only place that actual content was merged to. In the future, please wait until the deletion discussion is complete before merging any material. Rossami (talk) 23:48, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

List of flags featuring one or more stars and the colors red, blue, and white
This article is just about flags that "feature one or more stars and the colors red, blue, and white". It seems kinda pointless to have this as a separate article. If it shouldn't be deleted, there has to be some article out there that this can be merged into... --Hottentot
 * Delete, Delete, Delete So a user is really going to type a title like List of flags featuring one or more stars and the colors red, blue, and white - it was a stretch to even cut and paste it! And why discriminate against List of flags featuring one or more crescents and the colors green and white? And just to be clear about this Delete   Dlyons493 01:17, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep or merge to Flag of the United States. — Phil Welch 01:25, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Don't Merge with Flag of the United States. Merge into List of flags by design. Crypticfirefly 01:31, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge to Flag of the United States, which already has a section listing flags with similar design that links to this article, making it easier to merge there. Also merge to List of flags by design. — Phil Welch 01:35, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Withdraw Delete in favour of suggestion by Phil Dlyons493 01:39, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * The two flags in this article that were not already in Flag of the United States' relevant section have been merged. Redirect to maintain attribution history. — Phil Welch 02:38, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, Delete, Delete. The flag of my country feaures one or more stars and the colours red blue and white but someone decided that it doesn't qualify. Let me say again in case I haven't made it clear, the title of this page lists flags featuring one or more stars and the colors red, blue, and white" but there are flags "featuring one or more stars and the colors red, blue, and white"'' which are not permitted on the page. Sheesh. Moriori 01:46, September 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * Again, the relevant section of Flag of the United States seems to make the point more clearly than the title of this article, making a merge there appropriate. — Phil Welch 02:30, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Negative. The Flags with a similar design section of Flag of the United States features 12 flags. Six of them do not have stars, and six of them are not coloured red white and blue. What an earth could the point be of merging List of flags featuring one or more stars and the colors red, blue, and white in that section. What on earth is the point of List of flags featuring one or more stars and the colors red, blue, and white anyway, when a flag fitting that specification is not permitted in the article? Moriori 02:48, September 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * The point was apparently the same as that of "Flags with a similar design", only with stricter and more arbitrary criteria. Clearly, the point is better made in the newly merged version of "Flags with a similar design". — Phil Welch 02:57, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * If the topic of the article is flags featuring one or more stars and the colours red, blue and white then the flag of New Zealand qualifies. No one ever said it was flags featuring only one or more stars and the colours red, blue and white. Heck, if it was, over half of those flags in there would be disqualified, as they obviously feature stripes, which are not stars. &mdash; J I P | Talk 07:37, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Do your homework. You will see that User:Blahma removed the New Zealand flag September 3 because although it is red white and blue with stars it has a red white and blue something else in the corner.
 * I repeat, where does it say the flags have to only feature one or more stars and the colours red, blue and white? &mdash; J I P | Talk 08:59, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Are you hard of hearing? ):- ..Do You Homework. The introduction criteria in the article specified the following - "This is a selected list of 'flags featuring one or more stars and the colors red, blue, and white'. Flags listed here contain at least one star and contain three different colors: red, blue, and white".  So, I added the New Zealand flag which qualifies under that specification, and on September 3 User:Blahma removed it, stating "removed flag of NZ (features the Union Jack)" and announcing some sort of nebulous change to the criteria. The fact is, it doesn't matter where you want to put a list of XXXX, if everything that qualifies as XXXX isn't allowed to be included, then the article about XXXX must not be allowed to exist on Wikipedia. Unless there has suddenly been a new policy adopted that censorship rules. Moriori 09:39, September 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry, my reply was too confusing. I know the New Zealand flag was removed because it contains other pictures than stars. But what I wanted to say was that nowhere in the title List of flags featuring one or more stars and the colours red, blue and white can I find anything saying other pictures aren't allowed. If the Union Jack isn't allowed it should be mentioned in the name of the list, not as an additional rule added later. &mdash; J I P | Talk 10:28, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I do not understand what is the aversion to the inclusion of the Union Flag! The Union Flag is red, blue and white (perchance the founding fathers of America used the same colours since it was prior to their UDI a British colony), and therefore if the list includes or or more stars New Zealand DOES qualify.  As does Tuvalu, Cook Islands, Australia, Cayman Islands, Niue, Ross Dependency and more .... or do not ANY of these count since they are not US-centric nations.   STRONG DELETE for this very badly written article!!!! Rhyddfrydol 22:51 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but before insulting the article as being very badly written, maybe you could bother to read through the whole discussion and find what its original purpose was and so what cause did that "aversion" against the Union Flag have. As I told below, I won't repeat nor evolve here anything further, but just two hints are: 1. The purpose was to distinguish between some very similar flags which consist a virtual group, so mixing them with flags from other groups does not do much good. 2. The flag of NZ was deleted at the same time when the criteria was clarified, but later someone for some reason generalized the criteria again, so now really the flag of NZ would qualify. Blahma 00:03, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Not only is the article very badly written, it is extreme in its generalisation, an insult to the science of Vexillology, and as such no place in Wikipedia. I have seen Children's flag books which are more comprehensive. I reiterate STRONG DELETE.  Rhyddfrydol 00:18 12 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete or merge somewhere else or rename to List of flags featuring one or more stars and the colors red, blue, and white but which do not have the Union Jack since apparently the flag of New Zealand is not allowed on this page. --Henrygb 02:15, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * See comment on previous vote. — Phil Welch 02:30, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Unnecessary article.  The section at Flag of the United States is all that is needed, and a more logical location for this information. --JW1805 03:06, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Since content has already been merged, leaving a redirect is necessary to maintain attribution history. — Phil Welch 04:04, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Delete everything including the page history. The Australian flag also fits the list criteria, but apparently it is also not allowed, because it has the Union Flag in it. (Sounds like discrimination to me.) – AxSkov ( ☏ ) 07:16, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Topic is far too narrow for the list to be useful. &mdash; J I P | Talk 07:33, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep but remove artificial limit on other objects. If you want a list of these, make an article at List of flags featuring only one star and the colors red, blue, and white.  This is probably something that can be done better with catagories though. --Apyule 09:07, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. The article is too narrow, and the information has been merged into Flag of the United States. Don't redirect List of flags featuring one or more stars and the colors red, blue, and white to Flag of the United States because the Australian and New Zealand flags meet these criteria but don't look much like the United States flag. Jll 10:45, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. A really pointless article. If there are flags here that arn't on a list of flags, put them there. mrholybrain 11:25, September 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep . I am the original creator of the article and would like to defend its purpose here. But first thanks to User:Henrygb, who put the AfD template to the article's page, because without it I would not notice this discussion at all. Well, and now: I got the idea first while at an international event, where there were thousands flags displayed by individual participants. I could easily recognize a lot of them, but there were some which kept both me and all my friends confused and uncertain. If you live in Europe and do not meet those flags so often, you really can't tell the difference between e.g. the flags of Texas and Chile, or the flags of Flag of Cuba and Puerto Rico (which is often a crucial difference, in terms of the language and/or the general background you may await while addressing the person who is waving this flag). That's why I thought it'd be handy if also we here in Europe could have an easy way how to make the things clear and see all those similar flags in one place, without having to look them up in the list of all existing country flags. Now I hope I have made it a bit more clear while e.g. the flag of New Zealand has not been included (please don't feel offended for that just because you come from there). Also, to all you U.S. guys over there, sorry, but the similarity with the U. S. flag was also not the original idea, though now it has become a considerable one. I agree that maybe the article title as is now is a bit confusing, too long and looking to be too specific. Still I suggest the article should not be deleted (because of its prospective usage described above) - maybe rather splitted into several articles like "List of flags similar to the flag of Texas", "List of flags similar to the flag of Cuba" etc. But I just alert that with this solution, another problems appear like which flag is the "base one" and which are the "derivatives" etc. Also, I think that unless you prove that all of the listed flags have been inspired by the U.S. flag, this article should not be merged with that one, since then its original purpose will vanish as you will have to either break up the list (and along with that its original purpose) or introduce false facts into the article on the U. S. flag. I hope I have not sounded too bossy or boring, just wanted to explain my motives and opinions. I am open to any further discussions. Blahma 11:55, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * OK, can I feel offended about the New Zealand flag not being included when I don't come from there (in fact I come from pretty much directly across the entire world from New Zealand)? If the title of the article is List of flags featuring one or more stars and the colours red, blue and white, it doesn't make sense not to include a flag featuring one or more stars and the colours red, blue and white, as the New Zealand flag does. If you want to amend the rules to exclude flags that feature the Union Jack, rename the article to List of flags featuring one or more stars and the colours red, blue and white but not the Union Jack. &mdash; J I P | Talk 12:12, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * OK, let's do that and rename the article. Anyway, I too am not really contented with its current name. But first we have to settle on some name, which would clearly describe the list. I think that you too will agree that the title you just proposed ("...but not the Union Jack") would make the title even longer and less straight-forward. I have tried to give explanation on the purpose of this list above, but fail to find out a good name so far. Probably we should start from the other end, and not give the name according to what the flags feature, but rather to the similarities. Still, my worries about listing it simply as being derivates of the U. S. flags are expressed above. If you propose a fitting solution for another name, I am for rename as well. Blahma 12:24, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Yet something worth thinking over: Originally I did not intent to include the U. S. flag in the list and the goal was just to list all flags which feature a single star and the colors mentioned. Also the title, which originally was List of flags featuring a star and the colors red, blue and white, respected this original intention. However, somehow also I got influenced by the ubiquitous U. S. flag and decided to include this as well, maybe also because of historical reasons and its relationship with some of those flags already listed. Now I think I could withdraw from it (also in order to make the original purpose of showing just really similar flags together), so we could resign on listing the U. S. flag, which would make it easier to find a suitable title for the article (maybe something which would include lone star flags, as this is a common enough term which could constitute a group of flags - but take this just as an idea). Blahma 12:31, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete We have images of flags. Pilatus 12:08, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * This is just what I feel to be bad on the List of flags by design. It features only a list of links, while only by listing images as well you make the list really well aranged and easy to be used to serve its original purpose, as I described above. Blahma 12:18, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect to List of flags by design. If you want to, change that to a gallery of flags by design. — Phil Welch 12:27, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * A gallery of flags by design would not be a bad idea at all. Actually I recall I originally wanted to include this group of flags in the List of flags by design, but after finding out a list would not satisfy the purpose of the article (distinguishing between similar flags), I decided to start a new article. If we would make the present List of flags by design into a gallery (which I think would be a good idea, since if one is focused at the design, it would be good if they could see the designs immediately and all at once, instead of having to click on each of the links), then we could also easily incorporate the contents of this article into such a gallery and this article would become superfluous (and could be also redirected to that gallery). Blahma 12:39, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Care to help? I've gallerized the first section. As soon as we finish the whole thing let's do a page move to Gallery of flags by design, redirect the article in question, and call it a day. — Phil Welch 12:45, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Of course I care to help. Started somewhere from the end so as not to interfere, and have already made one section and going to gallerize further until the job is done. Just did not want to start myself since I was not sure if the decision had already been taken to start this. Thanks for doing the first step :) Blahma 13:36, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, bury and don't even think of merging. Ahahahaha! What next? List of apostles that end with "eter"? :-D / Peter Isotalo 13:06, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, horribly POV and US-centric, violates WP:NOR, article claims "Ultimately, the designs of these flags are derived from the Flag of the United States." Alphax &tau;&epsilon;&chi; 13:20, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I really do not consider this work of mine US-centric. I live in the middle of Europe and if you would bother to read my comments above, the idea was not related with the US flag at all already from its very beginning. The only sentence which may seem US-centric is really the one you cite, but that has been added by another user (not me) and since I did not understand its perfect meaning (not a native speaker of English, sorry :p), I kept it there. If you feel incomfort with that sentence, feel free to modify it or delete it. Blahma 13:36, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect to List of flags by design or else retitle as "Red, white and blue flags with horizontal stripes and one or more stars on a field" to more accurately convey the article's original intent (that is, helping people distinguish flags that look very similar). I see that New Zealand's and Australia's flags are currently listed, but these are quite easily distinguished by the distinctive Union Jack element.  They should get their own page or section in List of flags by design, which would collect all the current and past flags encorporating the Union Jack.  The article should not be deleted entirely, because it does have a valuable use for those of us interested in identifying flags and their countries. Rohirok 16:44, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong Delete. Incredibly narrow and subjective list.  I like Phil's gallery idea if we need somewhere to help distiguish flags -- lists like this could get out of hand quickly. .:.Jareth.:. babelfish 20:15, September 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Listcruft. android  79  20:21, September 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect. After the above discussion I have changed my opinion. Now I agree that the article may be got rid of, but for archival purpose that it should preferably be redirected to the one it got merged with, which now is List of flags by design and hopefully will soon be moved to Gallery of flags by design or something similar. Also because of that job being almost done at this moment, I think we have reached a consensus and there is not much sense in discussing this further. I have placed my last words and a personal opinion on what has been happening with the article and why I reacted in the ways I reacted into the article's discussion page. That's it. Blahma 22:01, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - there is a satisfactory listing on the web of all the variants of flags throughout the world - with stars, crescents, colours red, yellow, blue, wavy lights, lions rampant etc etc - refer to http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/keyword.html - an external link to a flags page to this site would be far better than individual wikipedia articles on the many hundreds of variations in flags throughout the world (and yes this includes flags outwith the United States of America! Rhyddfrydol 22:40, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as a bizzare way to categorise information. If it's merged as suggested I won't complain, but do not treat that comment as a vote for keep. Sabine's Sunbird 23:46, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete or move to imaginary listwiki or triviawiki. >>sparkit| TALK << 01:41, September 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: Gallery of flags by design is live, and List of flags by color and List of flags by number of colors are next up. Since this article is being merged into these new galleries, I think (although I'm not certain) we're legally obligated to keep the attribution history one way or another and thus deletion is impossible. Since it's very unlikely any good article can be created at this title, I suggest we are forced to accept a redirect as our only remaining option, and as a remarkably harmless option at that. — Phil Welch 03:12, 12 September 2005 (UTC), 22:42, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete silly list --TimPope 20:56, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Pointless. Taco Deposit | Talk-o to Taco 22:13, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - ........... (for the above reasons) -- Phroziac (talk) 23:56, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.