Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of goals scored by African teams at the FIFA World Cup


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. majority being concerned about the value of the list JForget  14:44, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

List of goals scored by African teams at the FIFA World Cup

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Per WP:LISTCRUFT and WP:NOT#STATS Luxic (talk) 09:18, 20 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Similar lists for other continents don't exist. I wonder if African nations at the FIFA World Cup falls into a similar band. 91.106.97.16 (talk) 11:26, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete - Wikipedia is not a place for indiscriminate information, nor is it The World Cup - The Complete History. Also, as stated above, other continents don't have such lists (although it'd be interesting to see how long the ones for Europe and South America would be). DitzyNizzy (aka Jess) &#124; (talk to me) &#124; (What I've done)  12:31, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, and devoting an article to this subject certainly seems indiscriminate. RadManCF &#x2622; open frequency 15:11, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 17:15, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete - as per nom, non-notable list. GiantSnowman 17:18, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete - while certainly an interseting list, it does not belong on wikipedia. Sir Sputnik (talk) 17:21, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Do Not Delete - I'm African and I compiled this list because it would be of interest to other African football fans. Football is very important in Africa, as is Africa's story at the biggest football tournament in the world. Would you raise the same opposition to the Wikipedia lists in other parts of the world e.g. List of top England international rugby union points scorers and try scorers or List of Washington RFC honors or List of Kinston baseball people? Look people, having some sense of cultural objectivity here! Different things are important to different people in different places. I'm not saying those lists should be deleted; quite the opposite - I think people in England, Washington, or Kinston find thoses lists suitably interesting. The Wikipedia is a valuable repository of information people can show to their kids and neighbours. (PS: The same arguments apply to the article African nations at the FIFA World Cup that I created at the same time as this list.) Now, I had hoped that an African list/article would inspire historians from other confederations to create corresponding lists/articles. I'm now compiling - as originally intended and due to the first (unsigned, initially) complaint - the corresponding article and list for Asian World Cup history. I'm up to 1962, and it's very tricky owing to countries like Turkey and Israel moving between Asia and Europe in qualifying. It would be good to get help on it once its first draft is ready. I wouldn't personally create Europe or South American articles since their history is basically the history of the World Cup. This effort was for the 'smaller' confederations. The preceeding comment was left by the article's creator, who - rather ironically, given one of her sentences - didn't sign it. DitzyNizzy (aka Jess) &#124; (talk to me) &#124; (What I've done)  23:13, 20 June 2010 (UTC) Ironic indeed. Apologies for following your non-signing example ;-) -Crabbylucy (talk) 23:26, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: you're completely missing the point. We're not proposing deletion on the concern that Africa is not notable (who would?!), instead because Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Especially, when it comes to stats, which can easily be arranged in countless indiscriminate ways. We already have a list of FIFA World Cup goalscorers, and that's enough. No need to create six different lists, one for each confederation. By the way, if you really want to do something for the sake of African football fans, you might create/improve all the articles listed here. That would be way more helpful. — Luxic (talk) 01:23, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Reply: I would be happy to agree with O
 * Delete. While I have no objection to having extensive coverage of the World Cup in Wikipedia, that does not mean that every possible way of analyzing the data from the World Cup needs to be a Wikipedia article. I would need to see some evidence that sports journalists consider "number of goals scored by a confederation in the World Cup" to be a meaningful statistic before I could support this article. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 04:05, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Transfer. While I do understand the reason for the nomination, I believe this article is well constructed and offers value. I think the contents of this article should be transferred to the African nations at the FIFA World Cup article. I hate to see this great effort wasted. —Osa osa 5 (talk) 03:47, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, African nations at the FIFA World Cup might be deleted for basically the same reasons. I haven't nominated it yet only beacuse – as you pointed out – in a way it's sad to see such an effort wasted. — Luxic (talk) 08:11, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The information does already exist at List of FIFA World Cup goalscorers. As for the second article, that information too also exists at National team appearances in the FIFA World Cup. 91.106.99.14 (talk) 19:26, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
 * First, the information on each goal at List of FIFA World Cup goalscorers is far less than in this list. Second, the compiled-confederation information available at National team appearances in the FIFA World Cup is far, far less than in the article. Third, I think that transferring this list to the African nations at the FIFA World Cup article would be more than fine - I had originally intended that to be the case but the article was getting too long. Fourth, the list of articles that need to be made at Template:Football_in_Africa is all very - what's the word, cookie cutter?, but to say that only such articles should be written suppresses initiative - I'm sorry that my world view does not coincide with your world view. Fifth, would you folks make up your mind already? I'm over halfway through making the corresponding Asian article & list (see my Sandbox) and I'd like to know if it should be halted. All these condescending 'Oh we may only keep this list and article out of pity at best' and 'missing the point' remarks are very tiring, and I just want this over with. Thank you.-Crabbylucy (talk) 12:18, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Let's put it this way. I think your work is really good; I honestly do. What I mean by missing the point is that you should put your efforts in another direction. Instead of having six different articles by confederation, don't you agree it would be better to use your skills and knowledge to improve the single World Cup articles? I mean, most of them (e.g. 1966, but many others too) are in awful shape, and the info available at African nations at the FIFA World Cup would fit perfectly in them. — Luxic (talk) 13:36, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for thinking that my work is good. But I do wish you'd try to see my point. No, I definitely do not think that improving the individual World Cup articles is in any way comparable to the articles in question. The two kinds of articles are orthogonal in interest and I simply do not understand why you don't see the difference. Culture clash? Philosophy clash? Horizontal vs Vertical clash? Now, I've read several of the individual World Cup articles (and linked to them) and modified the few of them where I've found additional information worth putting in. -Crabbylucy (talk) 18:00, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * In response to the original complaint, I have compiled the full list of Goals by Asian countries in the World Cup in my sandbox. Haven't double checked it yet. (And yes, the inclusion of Turkey's 1954 goals is certainly debatable.) I won't bother making a new article with it until this discussion is complete. Mind you, I fully expect the final answer to be "The history of minority confederations is not worth documenting separately and should be deleted in accordance with the historical principle that the majority always wins" or some variant thereof. (Note that 'minority' is used in a footballing context to refer to Europe and South America.) Thank you. -Crabbylucy (talk) 18:00, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I do see the difference. But the fact is that consesus seems to be for not having the World Cup covered by confederation. And I mean none of them; be it UEFA, CONMEBOL, CAF, AFC, CONCACAF or OFC. Anyway, bear in mind that this discussion is only about the list of African goalscorers, not the African nations at the FIFA World Cup, which – as I said before – has not yet been nominated for deletion. So, if you want to have a final answer about that, we should nominate it and see what people say. — Luxic (talk) 19:21, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Do what you will, you've clearly made your mind up already. I'm sorry that my cultural viewpoint does not fit within yours. As for consensus - you do realize who's voting here, right? That the people most likely to find this article informative live in countries where there is low Wikipedia usage and therefore wouldn't have heard of this article so soon, let alone know how wikipedia works or voted on this page? Or maybe that's your point - because most Wikipedia users don't live in Africa, it's not important that articles of interest to them be kept alive. I've offered counterarguments to every argument one of you proposed, and yet... You really don't get it, do you? I don't know why I'm surprised. I hope you've put notices of deletion for the other articles I listed at the start, and for so many other articles of interest to people solely within one country (or one region thereof) with high Wikipedia usage. I thought the Wikipedia encouraged diversity. Apparently not. Very well, I'll slink off now. I give up. Pat yourself on the back, you've won. I hope you're happy now. I don't plan to return to this discussion, this page, or updating these articles, or those in my sandbox, ever again. Goodbye.-Crabbylucy (talk) 21:15, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep. --MicroX (talk) 06:56, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe you should have a look at WP:POLL. — Luxic (talk) 08:11, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:05, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Sandman888 (talk) 10:56, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.