Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of heavy vehicle fatal accidents involving brake failure


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. List is found to fail WP:CSC. &mdash; Coffee //  have a cup  //  beans  // 01:45, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

List of heavy vehicle fatal accidents involving brake failure

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Unworkably vague list article. There are a vast number of accidents, inevitably many of which will have involved brake failure. However does this make an encyclopedic topic?

As to the practicalities of sourcing, then even this currently tiny article is failing that with only one reference (the recent Bath accident has no publicly identified cause as yet). Andy Dingley (talk) 19:37, 20 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete I can't figure out what the role of this list is; what purpose it serves. It isn't a list of notable topics, and it isn't a list of non-notable topics that fall under some other clear topic. And it's certain to be ever-expanding yet never close to comprehensive. So I don't see where it fits in WP:CSC. A comparison with List of hydroelectric power station failures is not apt. That list fulfills several list criteria, such as being short, complete, and containing notable topics. It's very similar to List of food contamination incidents, which is also of dubious merit. I could see keeping this if there were a clear statement as to what it's for. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 20:03, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * as previously noted, it is so that people who are aware of similar accidents from personal knowledge can add them. It does not matter if it is ever expanding, generally users will be interested in the series of accidents near a hilly location to see what could be done to prevent recurrence.Engineman (talk) 10:13, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. N ORTH A MERICA 1000 21:31, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. N ORTH A MERICA 1000 21:31, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. N ORTH A MERICA 1000 21:32, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes it is recentism, but accounts of the lorry hooting the horn as a warning on the recent accident in Bath as he descended the hill implies brake failure due to incorrect driving technique or lack of maintenance on brakes - no doubt when the results come from police the item can be corrected or removed. The topic is very specific and there aren't that many accidents in fact with such a cause nowadays because lorries are generally prohibited from using dangerous hills or roads are fitted with escape lanes for historic accident reasons. In Bath, with its steep hills, there have been a number of previous fatalities caused by the topic in question, with lorries descending hills, and yet information on this is not readily obtainable - nor the specific brake related cause - (e.g. driving technique or failure of maintenance. Actual brake component failure is very rare ) - including 3 into the same hotel, Royal York,  1 at least fatal. There have been others on the A46 into Bath descent also fatal, and this was one of the reasons for the A46 diversion now fitted with escape lanes but information on these is not easily available since internet research does not discover them although they definitely used to happen regularly until the road was diverted ( partially due to a little girl fatality) The local paper no longer has an archivist and so this is no longer a source. This widespread loss of info from local newspapers, where you used to be able to call the archivist, is a direct information loss from the internet age and it behoves us to at least replace it. Comparison with List of List of road accidentsEngineman (talk) 10:13, 23 February 2015 (UTC) where some of the ones I have used are gleaned shows that Brake Failure causes only a small proportion of accidents, and so the topic is much more specific than that articles' remit. The article is only a beginning and can no doubt be improved over time - i'm not going to spend a lot of time on it now to improve to have it deleted - leave it and I will. I think the list of food contamination events is an excellent article and draws this information together in a useful manner for those interested in this topic ( me for example). The hydro electric dam failure which I started was also criticised in a similar manner when it began for the same sort of reasons. Brake failure on heavy vehicles is a very specific type of accident and I doubt from news reports if the Scottish one counts. I would see this topic article over time being segregated into eg. Accidents caused by brake fade on long hills during normal driving with correct maintenance and technique - very rare. Accidents caused by lack of maintenance of brakes Accidents caused by lack of proper driving practice eg premature pumping of brake to exhaust air reservoir prematurely, failure to engage low gear,Engineman (talk) 10:13, 23 February 2015 (UTC) Engineman (talk) 14:44, 22 February 2015 (UTC)Brake component failure ( very rare in fact) etc Thus the article will be useful guide to traffic engineers and those interested in public safetyEngineman (talk) 10:13, 23 February 2015 (UTC). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Engineman (talk • contribs) 11:29, 22 February 2015 Engineman (talk) 10:13, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete In the UK during the last two months there have been two accidents where a runaway lorry has hit pedestrians: one in Glasgow, one in Bath; and both made the national news. There has yet to be a formal report on either which would confirm or deny brake failure as the primary cause, and I suspect that the article was created out of WP:RECENTISM. Road accidents happen every day. -- Red rose64 (talk) 21:45, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * no, lorries out of control due to overheating breaks or break failure killing people do not happen every day, but they happen with regularity in hill areas which have not been fitted with ameliorating measures eg escape lanes, restrictions etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Engineman (talk • contribs) 10:11, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete - This is a clear case of WP:LISTCRUFT. Topic is too specific and trivial for a list.  Event horizon51  (talk) 01:43, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * its not trivial, there have been at least 5 fatal accidents in Bath, over the last 30 years, yet there is no accesible place to find them. The same will apply to other hilly areas.Engineman (talk) 10:13, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * dont Delete

''The existing listList of road accidents is readily searchable even though lengthy and is therefore useful in its own right if you want to verify details of an accident that you can recall in general but lack specifics ie date. however, i have mined this long list for brake failure accidents and this has yielded the low number included here.''Engineman (talk) 10:13, 23 February 2015 (UTC) ''The points is that for example in the recent Bath crash, which appears for various reasons to have been brake failure, i know from personal memory of at least 4 other fatal accidents all caused by brake failure, all ultimately due to the fact that Bath is approached by a number of long hills. Yes I could find no detailed record of these accidents. It is therefore definitely worth having an article so that the public and highway officials can assess the repeatability of such accidents and install necessary corrective measures eg escape lanes, restricted routes etc.'' ''What will happen, is that when a similar accident in some other hill location occurs, local journalists can search the web, and this time find a central compilation and add that accident to it, and other interested parties, eg like myself, can add examples that they know off from living in eg a hilly area. This cannot be done at the moment without this list.''Engineman (talk) 10:13, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The list is very specific, it is about a) heavy vehicles ( ie no cars) b) brake failure causing a fatality.
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.