Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of illinois race car drivers


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy deleted. Mr.  Z- man  00:56, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

List of illinois race car drivers

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

This list is better addressed as a category. Having a list like this encourages people to add their favorite non-notable local driver to the list, and allows notable drivers from any genre of racing to be included. A category forces an article to be written. I am very impressed with the broad racing knowledge of the writer. Royal broil 02:01, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Compromise has been reached and this article was speedy delete nominated by author and deleted by me. The content was used to create the article Racing in Illinois. Royal broil  22:04, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete Might be too narrow of a category, and as a list it serves no purpose, given all the red links. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 02:11, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete, trivial intersection. The blue linked drivers should be categorized/listed with their hometowns, of course, but the state isn't really something that comes up in racing media that much. --Dhartung | Talk 08:11, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete I agree with all three comments, except for the part about making this a category. Dhartung is right on the money in describing this as an intersection between two unrelated qualities.  Nothing against Illinois, nothing against race car drivers, but I'd say the same thing about a "List of boxers from California".   Mandsford (talk) 13:15, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment I deleted my comment here. Jgrace1294 (talk) 02:29, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment I'll say this. You've got talent as a writer of articles, as evidenced by the one about the now-defunct Motion Raceway drag strip.  The way Wikipedia works is that everyone can publish an article, but not all articles stay up permanently.   Trust me, we've all had articles that were deleted, and it's a real pisser to see your work go, when so much other crap gets to stay.  In this case, I think the objections are based on the choice of topic, not the organization or the presentation.  Save it to your own computer, and don't let this experience keep you from continuing to contribute.  Like Royal, I'm impressed with your knowledge as well. Mandsford (talk) 18:51, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment If you noticed, (which I doubt) I placed a note at the top of the page which would discourage addition of "local" racers, such as myself. I have been on a major touring series, but my stint with them didn't last long enough for me to gain ANY noteriety. My dad, my uncle, 2 of my cousins, and a whole boatload of freinds could and would be added if I didn't have that note there.  Heck, even my sister, her boyfreind, and one of my neices are involved in racing in one form or another.  I could probably add enough "local" names to crash Wiki's servers, all of whom I know personally. But, I made this for the causal racing fan who might wonder where a certain famous, or semi-famous, driver is from.  I know a few names that surprised me (such as "Fast Freddie" Lorenzen, one of the pioneers of NASCAR), and I know of others I still have yet to add.  Unfortuenately, most of them do not have Wiki pages, and I can not create most of them, as I don't have quite enough background on them to do a page justice Randy Eller, a close freind of mine, and the man who got me into off road racing is one I couldn't do a good enough job on to warrent a wiki page). Jgrace1294 (talk) 20:19, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment It might be possible to include the hometown information as part of an article about racing in Illinois in general, or as part of the Chicagoland Speedway related pages, or something else. If there's one thing I've learned, it's more practical to find a way to add to an existing article rather than to start a new one.   My first encounter with AfD was like a kick in the head, although in retrospect, my critics were correct.  It takes some time to see what goes and what doesn't around here.  It's frustrating to see what looks like a double standard, although it's really a case of there being a lot of different people in AfD, each of whom has their own areas of interest.  Remember, you have just as much right to be here as any of the rest of us.  Mandsford (talk) 20:35, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment I am concerned about other Wikipedia contributors, especially the anon users, adding non-notable drivers. They do not see the big picture: not every driver who has won a local track title should have an article in Wikipedia. I agree about starting an article on Racing in Illinois and add this table to the article. You could discuss its history, a list of major/influential tracks, list of notable drivers, etc. If you decide to write an article on that topic after this article gets deleted, let me know. I have admin tools, and I will provide the entire text of this article to you to add to the article. The entire history of any article is available to admins, including all deleted edits and even deleted articles. You could end this deletion discuss (or at least as far as I am concerned) by moving the article to Racing in Illinois and starting some text on its history. I would withdraw my deletion nomination. Royal broil  01:17, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment I could almost move it to "Racing in Illinois," but I know little of the history of racing outside of central Illinois (roughly within 50 miles of Springfield, and a few other tracks), even though I've been to many, many tracks throughout Illinois, the US, and Australia.  I don't even know enough early history on my "home track" to be able to write the article on it, and I've been going there for over 35 years.  I couldn't even start to write a history on racing in the whole state.  In fact, I was going to create another list of defunct tracks in Illinois, as well as update the pathetic list of tracks in Illinois that is part of a larger list (I can't remember exactly where it is right now).  Jgrace1294 (talk) 02:24, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Also, I have nothing better to do, so I would be keeping an eye on this page, editing out all content that does not belong.  Jgrace1294 (talk) 02:29, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I absolutely hate that article that lists race tracks by state. It's extremely incomplete and there's no chance it will ever be completed. It's impossible to upkeep since so many tracks close every year and some open. I might nominate it for deletion, so don't waste time on it. We have discussed it at WikiProject Motorsport.


 * I do mean the history racing in the state in general, not the history of individual tracks. A list of the main notable tracks throughout the state would include Chicagoland, maybe board track racing at Soldier Field, Rockford Speedway, Gateway, etc. I once attended races at Clay County, and small tracks like that should be skipped (even though it was cool!). You could discuss the sanctioning bodies/genres of racing that happened in the state (board track racing at Soldier Field; ASA racing at regional tracks like Rockford Speedway or Grundy County (I'm guessing that one of those two had ASA); stock cars, midgets?, sprint cars?, USAC Silver Crown, and motorcycle racing on various tracks like the mile at Springfield; NASCAR today at Chicagoland/East St. Louis). It wouldn't have to be comprehensive/complete, a short article to get the ball rolling in a different direction is what I'm thinking. Royal broil  03:47, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment Let me see what I can do.  BTW, IIRC, board racing was not held at Soldier field, but on velodromes, or purpose-built wooden tracks (none of which survive today).  Soldier field hosted local racing, as well as NASCAR's top division.  Hmm.....that might be a nice section.....trivia.....NASCAR at soldier Field.....  Jgrace1294 (talk) 16:06, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment/Reply See Soldier Field. I added the information from a reliable source. That paragraph would probably work well in the new article. Royal broil  16:14, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment Racing in Illinois has been created.  you were right, Royal, that article IS a great fit.  I knew about Soldier Field being on the NASCAR circuit, but I wasn't aware of the earlier board track.  Jgrace1294 (talk) 17:39, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Speedy deleted Author requested speedy deletion on the article after agreeing to the compromise indicated about. This AfD should be closed immediately. Royal broil  20:30, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.