Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of international goals scored by Vivian Woodward


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The argument to keep is an alleged community consensus to keep such lists for "players who have been the record goalscorer for their national team". But this is not substantiated by a community-accepred guideline to this effect, and it does not address the argument for deletion (WP:GNG), which means that this argument for keeping the article must be disregarded. There is a proposal to redirect this title to Vivian Woodward as a WP:ATD, but it is not clear from this diescussion whether there is a need for such a redirect. It can therefore be created separately if desired.  Sandstein  09:09, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

List of international goals scored by Vivian Woodward

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

I am also nominating the following list because it lists hat-tricks scored in amateur matches and not professional ones:

The list article fails WP:GNG as he's only the 10th-highest record goal-scorer in England history. Not to mention that it includes the goals he scored for England's amateur team, which has are senior team matches. KingSkyLord (talk &#124; contribs) 01:39, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete as blatant indiscriminate lists of goals scored by this player WP:SYNTHed from game records that no source studies or remarks of as a group. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 04:53, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. KingSkyLord (talk &#124; contribs) 17:59, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Football, Lists,  and England.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 18:24, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Procedural keep as these are two completely different articles and bundling them is entirely inappropriate. They must be dealt with separately. GiantSnowman 18:55, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete List of international goals scored by Vivian Woodward per NOTSTATS. Procedural keep List of England national amateur football team hat-tricks per GiantSnowman. This article should be dealt with separately. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 21:18, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep- Per GiantSnowman. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 23:50, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Procedural keep both per User:GiantSnowman. No prejudice toward individual re-nominations.  Frank   Anchor  16:33, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * In response to the two nominations being separated, changed vote for this nomination to keep as the list of goals of a former national record holder.  Frank  Anchor  01:37, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   07:56, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Yep, no prejudice to separate re-nominations. GiantSnowman 16:35, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Created a separate deletion nomination for the amateur hat-tricks list. KingSkyLord (talk &#124; contribs) 21:56, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * In which case keep the Woodward article - was the England record holder;mfirst player to score more than 50 international goals; there is coverage. GiantSnowman 07:45, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep - consensus is to have such articles for players who have been the record goalscorer for their national team. Woodward was the record holder for four decades.  His goalscoring feats for England also continue to attract coverage long after his death eg this article from 2005
 * Delete: Now that the procedural issues are solved, would someone care to look at the start-class Vivian Woodward? What information that has not been copied from that article can certainly be added to it from this one, if there is anything reliably sourced, that might certainly create a better article. I am a little confused! The main reason the subject is notable is his Olympic career. This is relegated to the last sentence of the second paragraph here that at least has more content, "Woodward captained England amateur (or Great Britain) to gold medals at the 1908 Olympics in London and in Stockholm in 1912, scoring three goals in 1908, including one in the final, and other two in 1912." The subjects article just states, "He captained Great Britain to gold medals at the 1908 Olympics in London and in Stockholm in 1912", but does contain a one sentence "Olympic career" section. I woud think expanding that section a worthy undertaking. I might have missed it but it would seem that using someone else's work, without giving credit, we refer to as plagiarism. --  Otr500 (talk) 03:26, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment: Has there ever been an RfC on the notability of "List of international goals scored by..."? It seems like these articles are common, with a couple even reaching FA status. However, like this page, they simply consist of a nice little lede (that can arguably be merged to the parent page) and then a list of stats backed up by match results from a directory. I mean, we don't have a list of "List of touchdowns by..." or "List of races by...", do we? Why? I Ask (talk) 13:49, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Redirect to Vivian Woodward. Vivian Woodward is a very notable football player, but the threshold should be very high before we split out an article that is essentially a second biography. Game statistics, and a list of goals are already included in the main Vivian Woodward article, and as an alternative to deletion, I think redirecting the article to that section makes sense. Goals scored for the amateur team are probably insufficiently notable for inclusion. Sjakkalle (Check!)  14:27, 23 September 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.