Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of interracial romance films (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. postdlf (talk) 16:09, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

List of interracial romance films
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Having speedily closed the first AfD, and some concerns having been expressed, I am going to instead open a second AfD, on the grounds that this may be an unnecessary or non-notable list. On those grounds, I lean just the slightest to delete. Safiel (talk) 18:39, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete There is no common definition of "interracial romance film," and this article does not even suggest one. This article presents no criteria for inclusion outside its ultra-vague title. So many modern movies include interracial romances as some element of the plot, their existence as a class is not notable. Townlake (talk) 20:36, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * DeleteWP should have an article, or several, on the topic of: The history of interracial romance in American films. This list doesn't really work, and can't, since it puts very different things together. Skylark777 (talk) 20:43, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep The nomination offers no evidence for its claim that the topic is not notable. I cited an entire book about the topic in the other AFD earlier today.  Here's a bigger stack of sources:
 * The desiring of Asian female bodies: Interracial romance and cinematic subjection
 * New racism, intercultural romance, and the immigration question in contemporary Spanish cinema
 * Romance and the" yellow peril": Race, sex, and discursive strategies in Hollywood fiction
 * The Interracial Romance as Primal Drama
 * ''Race and Romance in "Bird of Paradise"
 * ''Negative Attraction: The Politics of interracial romance in "The Replacement Killers"
 * The Color of Love on the Big Screen: The Portrayal of Women in Hollywood Films in Interracial Relationships from 1967 to 2005
 * The role of actors' race in White audiences' selective exposure to movies
 * Guess Who's Coming to Dinner?: A clash of interpretations regarding Stanley Kramer's film on the subject of interracial marriage
 * Memories of Interracial Contacts and Mixed Race in Dutch Cinema
 * Fade to black and white: Interracial images in popular culture
 * Homoland: Interracial sex and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in Israeli cinema
 * Interracial Intimacy: Hegemonic Construction of Asian American and Black Relationships on TV Medical Dramas
 * Intercultural Romance and Australian Cinema
 * Gurinder Chadha´s Bride and Prejudice: A Transnational Journey Through Time and Space
 * Mixed Blood Couples: Monsters and Miscegenation in US Horror Cinema
 * Interracial Couples In Romance Films
 * Black and white on the silver screen: views of interracial romance in French films and reviews since the 1980s
 * Representations of Interracial Romance in Marc Forster's Monster's Ball and Mike Figgis' One Night Stand
 * Crossing the Color Line: Interracial Couples in Films From "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" to "Die Another Day"
 * Hollywood Fantasies of Miscegenation: Spectacular Narratives of Gender and Race, 1903–1967
 * "Wild" Women: Interracial Romance on the Western Frontier
 * Fade to Black and White: Interracial Images in Popular Culture
 * Animated Interracial Romantic Fantasies
 * Racial Masquerade Italian Style? Whiteface and Blackface in Zeudi Araya's 1970s Comedies
 * Guess Who's Off The Hook: Inventing Interracial Coupling In Global Art Cinema


 * It seems easy to keep going so say "when". Andrew D. (talk) 22:03, 4 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete. Seems vague and arbitrary. Is any romantic movie involving Vin Diesel and a white or black girl an "interracial romance film"? Vin Diesel is, after all, technically both black and a white. Do they have to go through some kind hardship in the movie due to being an interracial couple? Does it have to be a romantic drama? Snow Dogs is listed, so it looks like the answer is "no" to that. Nymf (talk) 22:08, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

) 9:53 pm, Yesterday (UTC+7)
 * Keep The depiction of interracial relationships in film is a legitimate encylopedic topic with many famous examples, and substantial RS coverage:, , , , , . Ill-defined inclusion criteria should not be a reason for deleting the list. Obviously films where the characters' races are incidental should not be included, so I suggest limiting the list to entries where relaible sources mention the films within the context of interracial romance to avoid the list becoming WP:INDISCRIMINATE. Betty Logan (talk) 22:43, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep as a notable list topic per WP:NOTESAL as evidenced by . A quick Google search also revealed this, this, this, this, and this. The condition of the article is irrelevant to the topic's notability, and we can use secondary sources to determine if a film meets the interracial romance criteria. Erik (talk &#124; contrib) (ping me) 22:47, 4 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep. A list article comprised of Wikipedia articles about films that have met criteria for inclusion. The original AfD was based simply on a  'I don't like it' . Some individuals might be offended by the movies, but they are not obliged to read Wikipedia any more than they are obliged to watch the films. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:12, 4 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep The article needs some inclusion criteria and a column of references pointing to the movie reviews and books to show that the film is notable for showing that romance. Also, discussion would be held on whether to consider or exclude romance with fantasy/sci-fi races and species such as vampires, space aliens, monsters, witches, those covered by the magical girlfriend article. I also agree that the mixed race should be a main aspect of the movie, and not that it happens to feature characters of mixed races, although if the latter garners recognition from the RS'es such as "it is interesting that the character has a mother of race X and a father of race Y" -AngusWOOF (talk) 23:18, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment To be clear, I agree with "Keep" voters that the topic of interracial romances in film is notable and well-covered. I don't think that's in dispute. The question here is whether Wikipedia should include an article that purports to be a list of every film where an interracial romance is important to the plot. I suspect that list would run into the thousands of films, with the majority of them from the past fifty years. That is why I support deletion of the list; to be honest about what it includes, this list's criteria would either be far too permissive to make maintenance practical, or would have to be tightened so thoroughly that the title of the article would have to change. Townlake (talk) 23:48, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:01, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:01, 5 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep, but include only entries where the interracial aspect plays a major role in driving the plot. I would get rid of Othello, for instance. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:59, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I going to say get rid of Othello because it is not a romance. It is about an interracial marriage, and most interpreters think that is driving the plot. Although of course you could say that Othello's race is just incidental and the same things would have happened if he had been white.Skylark777 (talk) 12:12, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
 * This dialogue highlights the main criteria problem with this list. For this list to work, it requires clear definitions of "race," "interracial," "romance," and "interracial romance." Right now the list is 0-for-4, and I'm not seeing anyone present clear ideas for what the criteria should be. Will this list just go back up for AFD in three months when clear criteria haven't been developed, or can we admit now that the concepts here are too subjective to make a list with this broad a title workable? Townlake (talk) 16:39, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
 * You make a truly convincing argument,, but I'm sticking to my vote (really a procedural 'keep') if only on the basis that the original AfD was simply a subjective 'I don't like it'. IDLI is not a policy or guideline for inclusion/deletion and therefore IMO such an AfD is not valid. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 20:57, 7 January 2015 (UTC)


 * We can use secondary sources as the criteria, with a qualified reference attached to each film. See list of films featuring home invasions as an example. Erik (talk &#124; contrib) (ping me) 16:44, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Good thought, but the definition of a "home invasion" is relatively straightforward. Is a marital relationship a "romance"? It seems like reasonable people could disagree on that, among many other definitional problems here. Townlake (talk) 16:49, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
 * It is possible to argue about anything. Home invasion is an Americanism and elsewhere it's just burglary.  Is The Hobbit therefore a home invasion movie?  Sensible people don't need endless rules to decide such things.  If there are disputed borderline cases then you just hash them out on the talk page and determine consensus. Andrew D. (talk) 17:22, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment Home invasion and burglary are not the same thing. Burglary occurs in an unoccupied structure, while a home invasion is generally an armed intrusion into an occupied structure, with the occupants generally held at gunpoint or even beaten during the intrusion. Totally different things. Safiel (talk) 21:14, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry,, but I rather feel that your interpretation is inaccurate on both counts. Remember that the encyclopedia is international and the laws where you come from may not be the same everywhere. It's probably best to refer to the definitions provided by the texts of national laws of various countries before making such a claim. In fact our own Wikipedia provides a very good overview of the actual facts. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 20:48, 7 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I like Betty's proposal to include only films that are covered in the context of interracial romance, such as a specific list or one of the books or chapters shown above. We could say that we need more than just one film review stating an interracial romance in passing. Erik (talk &#124; contrib) (ping me) 16:57, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep - this list should definitely define its inclusion criteria, but the intersection of romance films and interracial couples does seem to be a topic worthy of list coverage, per the sources provided above. Suggest renaming List of Films about interracial romance in accordance with Category:Films about interracial romance and for better clarity that the romance should be a theme of the movie, not merely incidental to the plot. --ThaddeusB (talk) 17:00, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep Formerly this was a big deal in America, getting ample media coverage. So it is a notable topic.  Others have already found ample sources to back that up.  Notability is not temporary.  There are many films today where the races of the characters doesn't matter, while others make an issue about it.  If it doesn't get media coverage for the interracial content, and it isn't a theme of the film(such as Guess Who (film)), then perhaps it should be removed.  That can be discussed on the talk page, no need to delete the article though.    D r e a m Focus  09:44, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.