Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of largest towns in England without a railway station (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The fundamental issue here is whether or not the concept of a "list of the largest town in England without a railway station" is notable enough to justify a standalone list article devoted to it. The most applicable policy brought up in this discussion is WP:LISTN, which requires sources that demonstrate that the topic "has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources". While one source from the Daily Telegraph was provided during this discussion, the quality of that source was questioned because it seems to primarily discuss travel times from London to various UK cities, with only a brief passing mention of large English towns that no longer have a railway station, therefore failing to provide significant coverage of the exact topic at hand.

The individual entries in this list seem to be fairly well-sourced, so it can be understandably frustrating to delete a well-sourced article. However, keep in mind that verifiability and notability are two entirely different concepts. Consensus is that while most of the information in this list is verifiable, the list itself is about a non-notable topic, and therefore must be deleted.  —&#8288;Scotty Wong &#8288;— 23:35, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

List of largest towns in England without a railway station
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

This article is a heap of WP:SYNTH. There aren't sources here discussing the entire list as a set. The only such source which might cover the list as a set returns a 404 error when I try to view it. As such, this article fails WP:NLIST. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 20:34, 10 July 2022 (UTC) This page is currently number one in a Google search for "biggest town without a railway station". I'm not arguing to keep this article (yet) but think there is merit in the subject, would be interested to hear others' thoughts. NemesisAT (talk) 21:57, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 20:34, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment Trainsandotherthings has also nominated List of largest towns in Wales without a railway station for deletion. A merge of the two articles and perhaps including Scottish settlements would be an option. NemesisAT (talk) 21:00, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
 * If consensus at this particular AfD is to keep, with a different consensus at the Wales article, I would have no objection to such a merge. If we are to cover this topic, there is no real reason to divide it up by the constituent portions of the UK (Wales, England, Scotland, Northern Ireland). But I have stated my views on these articles. So we wait and see what consensus, if any, comes about here. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 21:09, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm generally not one for bundled AfD nominations, but in this case I think it may be beneficial as both articles are similar and your rationales appear similar also. NemesisAT (talk) 21:58, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment, I can see the value in these list articles and have assessed the previous afd as well from 2018. My concern is not whether there are sources to determine that these areas are without a station, but whether there are credible sources discussing these areas as being relatively large without a station. I am unsure how notable the subject matter is, even if it's factually verifiable. A merge as considered above would need to consider if there are sources discussing this matter from a national perspective. I disagree with the nomination that the list is WP:SYNTH, but the wider issue around whether the list is noteworthy is a fair point. Bungle (talk • contribs) 21:13, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm not sure if I can argue that this list will satisfy our guidelines for list notability or synthesis. Though towns being far away from railway stations is a frequently discussed topic here in the UK, often used to argue for rail investment.
 * The map that shows how long it takes to reach every corner of the UK by train
 * Which parts of Great Britain are furthest from a train station?
 * The seaside town near London that bizarrely doesn't have a train station despite 70,000 people living there (note this one actually refers to Wikipedia, so not suitable as a source)
 * Scottish towns with no railway station look to get back on track "Grangemouth is the largest town in Scotland with no station of its own."
 * Campaign launched to reconnect north-east with rest of Scotland inspired by the Borders railway "Peterhead has a population of 19,720, and sites 32.5 miles from a railway station, making it the largest settlement furthest from a station in Scotland." whatever that means
 * Why doesn't Wythenshawe have the train station it deserves? The fight to restore the town's lost railway lines "Wythenshawe, population 72,000 and almost 100 years old, is the largest town in Europe without a railway station, despite the fact that a rail line runs right through the area," - a quote of a quote within the article, so not really reliable
 * From a quick search, there appears to be more than enough coverage to support an article on the legacy of the Beeching Cuts, which would presumably cover towns and cities left without rail service as a result of the cuts    Trainsandotherthings (talk) 22:12, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
 * An article on the Beeching legacy is a curious suggestion, but i'd agree with Nemesis that I also think there is merit in the article as a list and if I had to lean any way, it would be to keep. I think a list article can have some prose content too and maybe if this relates to the legacy from credible sources discussing it, that would satisfy the noteworthiness of the list. This article can definitely be more than what it is though, so maybe an article primarily about the legacy of the cuts and impact, that includes lists like this, is also worth considering. Bungle (talk • contribs) 06:13, 11 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment List is well formatted, could use more notations/citations, not a bad start. Oaktree b (talk) 22:15, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep As mentioned above, this topic comes up a fair bit in England, and the list is fully sourced.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 09:00, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not disputing that there's sourcing for the individual towns. But where is the sourcing that shows this topic as a whole meets NLIST? We talk about the roads being poor in Rhode Island all the time, but there's no List of longest roads in Rhode Island without proper maintenance. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 19:40, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep For the same reasons as given by Fire Walk with Me. Rillington (talk) 10:08, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep - The topic is notable. I dont think its true WP:SYNTH, its just a list of towns that a reliable source said didnt have a station. Its not a by population list and doesnt explicitly say X is the largest town without a station or anything particularly SYNTHy. Not sure we need a source that talks about them all as a set. Eopsid (talk) 19:24, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * WP:NLIST says "Notability guidelines also apply to the creation of stand-alone lists and tables. Notability of lists (whether titled as "List of Xs" or "Xs") is based on the group. One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; notable list topics are appropriate for a stand-alone list." Trainsandotherthings (talk) 19:36, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment: Seems like a rather myopic un-encyclopedic topic. My first inclination is to say Delete - I do not see why the topic is notable. Lightburst (talk) 00:39, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 10:24, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep. Notable topic about which plenty has been written over the years. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:04, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Simply saying "the topic is notable" without any evidence of such is not productive. There needs to be coverage in multiple reliable, independent, secondary sources. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 19:55, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. No evidence that the list has been written about as a list, so no pass on WP:NLIST. Not a content fork, so no pass on WP:CFORK. The keep votes to date are merely asserted notability and should not be considered in closing the discussion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BrigadierG (talk • contribs) 23:51, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
 * This source from The Daily Telegraph which someone posted earlier does include a list of largest towns without stations. Eopsid (talk) 15:08, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * It really doesn't list those things. It lists which stations take the longest to get to. BrigadierG (talk) 16:16, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I put a more direct link to that article's list in a comment further down. Just search for "10 of Britain's biggest towns without a railway station" in the article if you cant find it. Eopsid (talk) 17:27, 18 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete While there are sources that discuss that describe individual towns that don't have railway stations, there isn't anything per say that specifically lists towns without railways station. The information would be better covered in the individual settlement pages. Jumpytoo Talk 00:30, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Another use already linked a source from The Daily Telegraph which specifically lists largest towns without railways station. More direct link to list: . Eopsid (talk) 15:08, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * More accurately, that is a list of the largest towns that used to have a station but no longer do. As such, it is not exactly what is required here. wjematherplease leave a message... 16:19, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The title of that list is "10 of Britain's biggest towns without a railway station". Its not explicitly a list of largest towns that used to have a station. They just all happened to have a station at one point and there is a column for that on the list, there is also a column like that on the article we are discussing. Eopsid (talk) 17:21, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Seems fairly obvious that towns that never had a station are not being considered there. wjematherplease leave a message... 17:43, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
 * That's besides the point as this article clearly indicates that most of the large towns without a station did have one previously. NemesisAT (talk) 17:50, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
 * That's as maybe, but since "towns without a station but had one previously" isn't the subject of this list, it's not exactly relevant. wjematherplease leave a message... 18:12, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
 * There is no indication that that list excludes towns that never had a station. Just looking at the article we're discussing it only mentions two towns without stations. One's too small for the Telegraph's list and the other is more an island than a town. The reason there are no large towns in that list that never had a station is because there arent any. Eopsid (talk) 19:42, 18 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete. No evidence has been found/presented to demonstrate this intersection is notable and warrants a list article. Sources are predominantly about individual towns, with others discussing a subset of this whole (e.g. towns that used to have a station). wjematherplease leave a message... 16:27, 18 July 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.