Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of minor sports teams in the United States by city


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. This looks to me like a "List of X of Y," so per WP:LISTN there is no recognized way of determining notability. We have to base inclusion on whether or not it is useful, and I don't see agreement on that. Cerebellum (talk) 15:28, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

List of minor sports teams in the United States by city

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WP:LISTCRUFT with no sources and vaguely related to the Minor league but without any real definition or significance (and also covered thoroughly in List of professional sports teams in the United States and Canada with the addition of Major teams). I attempted to add some definition by making it about top level organizations and was reverted. This page either is too vague for significance or needs to be more defined and/or completed with all minor league teams (although that is already covered in the aforementioned list. Yosemiter (talk) 15:31, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Everymorning (talk) 15:39, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Everymorning (talk) 15:40, 17 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete I fail to see how this list adds anything to the previously mentioned list of professional teams Seasider91 (talk) 16:49, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep it seems this meets WP:NLIST and the list of professional teams should be split given its size.--Prisencolin (talk) 07:42, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
 * How would you split the list of professional teams to reduce its size? If you add the word minor to the title making it only about minor professional (since Major professional sports teams of the United States and Canada already exists), it would remove all four to six of the major leagues and still have dozens of leagues with dozens of teams listed. As the article in this discussion is currently written, ALL those teams also need to be listed here but by city instead of league. And per WP:LISTN, this is a "List of X of Y" with no determined notability criteria and must demonstrate its own notability. Since I believe the intent was show United States cities associated with minor league teams, which there isn't even an article about, I still fail to to see the notability of this article without making it more defined. Yosemiter (talk) 13:27, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 03:52, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. North America1000 03:53, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. North America1000 03:53, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The original list of pro sports teams is close to being WP:TOOBIG (75/100 KB). I'd imagine it would be split along the lines of Major vs Minor league teams.--Prisencolin (talk) 17:20, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I mentioned that in my comment, remove 4 to 6 leagues (depending on your definition of Major) from the list that currently has 50 leagues and I don't think that will make any less WP:TOOBIG. The only way to reduce that list would be to break it by sport (such as List of Minor League Baseball leagues and teams and List of professional baseball teams in the United States by city). But in regards to the list nominated for deletion, does it make sense to keep it as is, or delete it and replace with something more specific (such as the one I linked for baseball)? Please note, that keeping it as currently defined, it would need to list every team from the 45+ minor leagues listed on the list of professional teams. Yosemiter (talk) 17:30, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 00:44, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep - Meets WP:NLIST and WP:GNG. Agree with above that the split is good. Smartyllama (talk) 16:06, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Please elaborate, how does it meet GNG when there are no references? (First line in GNG: "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list.") I agree that a split could be useful but how does this page, as currently defined (All minor league teams by city) currently be improved to meet any relevant guidelines. And if it seems like I am over responding it is only because I genuinely would like to know how this page could be improved. If you take a look at the edit history, I am pretty much the only one who has updated after the original creator made it. (Also, as I stated above this is a "List of X of Y" per WP:LISTN which has no inherent notability guidelines and is usually only accepted if there is an actual subject page for such a list to be attached to.) Yosemiter (talk) 16:11, 16 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete. In its current undeveloped state, the page is less than useful to our readers.  They are better served looking at List of professional sports teams in the United States and Canada.  To fully develop the article, the table format will have to be abandoned so that all the minor leagues can be included.  Per WP:BLOWUP, it would be easier to start over from scratch.  Besides, readers can easily seach List of professional sports teams in the United States and Canada for their city using their browser search function.  Sortable tables are also an option, but I don't think any of them are so long that they would really benfit from this. SpinningSpark 12:53, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete This is a tough one, but I'm not convinced this is an Appropriate topic for a list. Someone interested in any of these leagues would look for lists of teams in those leagues (Triple-A, AFL, NBA-D, AHL). Someone interested in minor league teams of some given city would probably look at the sports section of that city's article (e.g. Cincinnati). It's not clear to me what practical value this list adds. The fact that it's currently a mess (we could certainly rearrange it fairly easily) and has no references (I'm sure the info is correct, referencing would be fairly painless) are somewhat beside the point. The list is somewhat interesting to look at (basketball in Prescott, AZ even though its census rank is #227? Who knew?), but I'm not convinced it's useful to anyone. So weak delete for me for now. Ajpolino (talk) 04:51, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
 * As an added note here, I'm not sure WP:GNG or WP:NLIST offer much guidance for this discussion. Certainly leagues and the teams on the list meet WP:GNG but that's why they have their own articles. WP:NLIST suggests that as each of these teams pass WP:GNG, they are suitable for inclusion into a stand-alone list. I think the most informative guideline is WP:LISTNAME, where I think the strongest argument for deletion is that this list is "too general or too broad in scope", and therefore has little value. It has already been split into lists for each league and for each city as noted above. Happy to talk more about this with those who disagree! Ajpolino (talk) 05:02, 21 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete or split (or merge) Per WP:TOOLONG, either delete the list article or split it up based upon sport, or something along those lines. Better yet if possible merge with existing lists. Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ Talk 21:32, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep - I figured this would be a jumbled mess and an easy call to delete but this is actually a novel and useful method of indexing WP articles. Carrite (talk) 17:45, 22 November 2016 (UTC)