Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of most successful European football clubs by major European and domestic honours won.


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Fenix down (talk) 23:35, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

List of most successful European football clubs by major European and domestic honours won.

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We've deleted similar lists like this before, if memory serves me. The main issues are that this is WP:OR/WP:SYNTH, an example of what Wikipedia is not. Spiderone 21:49, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone  21:49, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Europe-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone  21:49, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone  21:49, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone  21:52, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Why is this being deleted? It is an accurate list of honours won by football clubs in europe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SaulBhoy (talk • contribs) 21:59, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * My main concern with this list is the fact that there don't appear to be reliable sources comparing clubs in this way. Merging domestic cup & league with major European titles and then ordering by total won is a very bizarre way of comparing how successful they are. It's bordering on original research. Also, the inclusion criteria are odd. Why is there only one Romanian team but three from almost every other country? Spiderone  22:09, 22 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete - we already have List of UEFA club competition winners which presents this kind of information is a clear, logical and notable manner. This article is a mess. GiantSnowman 22:08, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

How do people find a search for a total list of honours won across major european and domestic competitions? There is currently no source. This clearly provides that insight. All data has been sourced from other published wiki articles. The reason for the Romania team is that there is one clear stand out team, no other team comes close so wouldn't be included. This is an article that would be valued as its discussion comes up regularly.

The 'List of UEFA club competition winners' article does not present the same information as this article. It is missing more than half of the data.


 * Delete per nom. It's defintely OR and SYNTH as well as a very arbitrary, non-established way of measuring a club's success. Lennart97 (talk) 23:29, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Just remove any reference to success then and it will be a list of most European football clubs by major European and domestic honours won. It's a valid list that people want to see. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SaulBhoy (talk • contribs) 23:40, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * What matters is notability, and notability is not based on "what people want to see"; it's based on coverage by reliable sources. See Notability and No original research. Also, please sign your comments with ~ (see Signatures). Lennart97 (talk) 00:00, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

I had a look at the two links, thanks. If I can provide links to independent sources regarding the topic and links to reliable published sources to back this up will that alleviate the concerns here? SaulBhoy (talk) 01:40, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Absolutely. If you can provide reliable sources showing that this is an established way of comparing European clubs then it will merit inclusion as it will prove that it's not original research. Spiderone  07:42, 23 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Combining European and domestic competitions or even comparing the number of domestic wins between different countries doesn't seem useful. Nigej (talk) 11:48, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete Article uses arbitrary inclusion criteria (no league cups/supercups/ECWC's) as do the sources (someone's opinion and one of them is about a list by the unreliable Daily Star). Needs deletion not improvement. Dougal18 (talk) 16:40, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Is there any other way to actually view and maintain a list of total trophies won by European clubs or even Global clubs? I can't find one and this is an opportunity to have this in place. League cups, supercups and ECWC win were not originally included as they arent considered major honours. Would include the full list if needed though. I was also viewing an article "List of footballers with 500 or more goals" on wikipedia. What does that article have that this one does not? To me that article seem full of unreliable sources. 155.201.38.5 (talk) 15:32, 24 December 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.