Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of musicians in the first wave of punk rock


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. And rename to List of 1970s punk rock musicians or similar.  Sandstein  07:15, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

List of musicians in the first wave of punk rock

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(Twinkle messed up and left this part-done, so I hope it works OK). I wonder if this makes sense as a supportable list. While there was a "first wave" with sources out there, I can't find any key definition that would make the membership of various musicians objective, and no clear definition as to who was or who was not in the "first wave" - all we have in the article is "1975-1979", which seems arbitrary and is unsourced. If you look on the Talk page, the discussion is pretty much all people swapping their own OR/POVs. I think what we need in order to keep this article is a source that clearly defines the "first wave" in such a way as to make it possible to decide who was in it. Thoughts? -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 18:59, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete as completely arbitrary in definition. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 19:02, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment. Actually, I think we'd need more than one source. I think we'd really need evidence that there's a generally accepted definition of what and who constitutes the "first wave" - there are sure to be lots of different opinions in the music sphere out there. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:12, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep. Punk rock became popular in the mid-1970s and was largely over in terms of its initial mainstream popularity by 1979, with post-punk, new wave, goth, etc. becoming more popular. There was a 'second wave' if you like in the early to mid 1980s, particularly enjoying popularity from 1982. The first wave (at least the UK part of it) is documented in Alex Ogg's book No More Heroes: A Complete History of UK Punk from 1976 to 1980. The same publisher has two volumes covering the early 1980s bands, one focusing more on the 'street-punk' and related bands and one on anarcho-punk. 'First Wave' doesn't seem to be widely used, but if retitled to 'List of 1970s punk rock musicians', I don't really see a problem - not difficult to source - there are plenty of books on punk rock of that era.--Michig (talk) 19:39, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Yep, that's an interesting idea - I think renaming to "List of 1970s punk rock musicians" could be a good solution. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 23:07, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep Punk rock was started in the early-mid 1970s. That era is known as the first wave of punk. The term is used in the Punk rock article a few times and has book citations that I do not have access to.

The best thing to do is have lists of punk bands by decade (1970, 1980, 1990, 2000, 2010). The second wave punk bands list is even worse off then this one. If done by decade, there is no POV pushing about sub sub genres. --Guerillero &#124; My Talk   04:02, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * That sounds like a good plan to me - I agree the term "first wave" is used, but without a clear definition of what and who it comprises, a list under that title does seem like OR/POV. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:53, 27 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 01:27, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 01:28, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename I support the idea of renaming to 'List of 1970s punk rock musicians' as there appears to be no clear consensus for who is represented in the first wave/second wave/n wave. As an example, does the first wave cover the US acts of the 1970s, while the second wave covers the UK acts of mid decade. It could be argued that as these acts effectively had different messages (the US was more personal politics, the UK more externally political) this is enough to classify each as being part of a separate wave. Using the term wave runs the risk of POV pushing, while classifying by accepted chronological systems would avoid this. Punkrocker1991 (talk) 13:34, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.