Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of nicknames used by Donald Trump (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Opinion is about evenly divided, and there's no clear policy-based answer either way: The level of detail at which we want to cover Donald Trump's peculiarities is effectively a matter of our collective editorial judgment, given that they are clearly covered by reliable sources. But there is consensus that, if kept, the article should be substantially trimmed, e.g. to include only entries that are discussed in reliable secondary sources.  Sandstein  10:27, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

List of nicknames used by Donald Trump
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

I highly question the need for this article. It's been two years since the first nomination, and to be frank most of these nicknames haven't been anything more than a flash in the pan. The vast majority of these "nicknames" are just negative adjectives attached to names and are more aptly described as insults. Admittedly some such as "Crooked Hillary", "Pocahontas" and "Little Marco" have been widely discussed but most of this list is composed of borderline BLP violating flash of the pan remarks by Trump. Do "nicknames" like "My African American" or "MS-13 lover Nancy Pelosi" have any long term relevance or notability?

Not everything Trump tweets or says is notable and worthy of coverage in an encyclopedia article. Neither are most of the numerous WP:NEOLOGISMs he comes up with.

Perhaps some coverage of Trump's nicknames is appropriate in another article on Trump's social media or a new article about Trump's nickname usage in general. A list of every adjective + first name combo Trump's used that's been mentioned on a news site isn't the right way to cover this though. Think about it this way: if instead of tweeting "adjective + first-name", Trump instead tweeted "first name is an adjective derived noun!" would we have a list of every time Trump said "John Doe is crooked" and the media covered it? If not, why cover all the times he says something like "crooked John Doe"? Chess (talk) Ping when replying 23:41, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. Chess (talk) Ping when replying 23:41, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Chess (talk) Ping when replying 23:41, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 02:12, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Language-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 02:12, 1 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep but trim. There's enough coverage of Trump's giving nicknames to people to pass WP:LISTN (in fact, it's been noted that that's a primary method of his).  However, this list stands inclusion criteria.  Entries such as names used long before Trump was even born, entries for people who don't have an article, and entries that can only be sourced to Trump's tweets should probably go.  I think there's a WP:LISTN pass here.  Also, if this one goes, then List of nicknames used by George W. Bush should go, too. Hog Farm (talk) 03:38, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:INDISCRIMINATE and WP:NOTCATALOG. I note that the previous AfD had plenty of keep !votes based on the recognition that he is quoted as using nicknames, and suggesting this makes them notable. I think such keep !votes are likely to happen again. Many entries on this list fail WP:SUSTAINED but even if individual entries gain widespread and sustained coverage, the question is not whether the entries are notable but whether a list of those entries is notable. To demonstrate that the list is notable, coverage should focus on why this, as a collection is notable. Otherwise the entries are only notable in the articles on the recipients of the nicknames. I cannot find any clear evidence that the collection of nicknames used by this individual is a notable subject, so it is clearly a delete. Yet I would be persuaded to change my view if, for instance, there were WP:RS looking at his use of nicknames as a matter in its own right. -- Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 12:20, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
 * from the Columbia Journalism Review and from the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation are RS that describe Trump's use of nicknames as a separate phenomenon.  There seems to be a WP:LISTN pass here, and I can look for more examples, too.  I found these two in only a couple minutes on Google. Hog Farm (talk) 22:16, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
 * So these articles and the articles linked below are press reports looking at Trump and his propensity to use nicknames as a political weapon. They are good evidence that he does this, but I find myself still unclear how they make an exhaustive list of all such nicknames as notable in its own right. They could equally be evidence of notability for a section on the Trump article or an article about using nicknames in general. Much better, however is a single paper (rather, a published Master's thesis) that looks at the issue as an academic interest, particularly in terms of Trump's election strategy. It even sources this page. the thesis is here.. I don't think the presentation of this list is the best way to do it, and I still think it is indiscriminate. It would be better, in my opinion, as an article rather than a list. Yet it is sourced and notable after all. Deletion is only concerned with those matters, and trimming, clean up or rename arguments a matter for article editors. I feel I must therefore change my view to a reluctant keep -- Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 08:22, 3 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom and Sirfurboy. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 17:08, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Heavily trim. As mentioned above, this easily passes WP:LISTN; multiple news organizations have written articles about the President's use of nicknames as a whole, which is sufficient for WP:GNG. However, a large number of these nicknames have not seen more than transitory press coverage, and should be removed. Nonetheless, there are some that the President has used continually over a sustained period of time, as the nomination acknowledges. It remains to be seen whether there are enough for a standalone list, but it would be proper to try a trim before nominating this list again. Nobody in this discussion claims to have attempted it, so default to keep for now. -- N Y  Kevin   18:37, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
 * , by what criteria would you propose keeping vs. trimming content? What is "transitory press coverage" versus more sustained coverage? – Muboshgu (talk) 21:07, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
 * This is something I would expect to be worked out on the talk page via the usual consensus-driven process. In general, I would expect the discussion to converge on criteria which involve the amount and substantiality of press coverage over an extended period of time (analogous to how we decide WP:BLP1E), but other Wikipedians might have different ideas from me. It would be inappropriate for AfD to dictate those rules now. -- N Y  Kevin   04:31, 2 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:INDISCRIMINATE and WP:RECENTISM / WP:10YT concerns. Just because he has tweeted these things does not mean we need a whole Wikipedia article cataloging them. Most of these are hardly "nicknames" anyway. They're just insults. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:06, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete If the use of a nickname is notable enough it can be included in the main article, otherwise it is not needed.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:32, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep Easily passes WP:GNG and WP:LISTN with ample coverage in reliable sources - for instance, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , and many, many, more that I don't feel like listing because I'd literally be adding citations all night long and I don't have time for that. Clearly notable. Smartyllama (talk) 23:53, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep per Sirfurboy, Smartyllama and the list given by Carrite in the first nomination. By all means prune it appropriately. As for the suggestion that the similar List of nicknames used by George W. Bush should be deleted, it's been here a long time apparently without challenge until now, and was featured in a DYK (Recent_additions/2004/August). – Fayenatic  L ondon 09:02, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep - My opinion of both Donald Trump as a human being and of this article's notability has not changed. Clear GNG pass, as I made amply clear with evidence last time around. It follows again. Carrite (talk) 12:54, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Here's some evidence for a GNG Keep: "Trump's nicknames for rivals, from 'Rocket Man' to 'Pocahontas,'" Fox News. Carrite (talk) 04:52, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * And "It's not just 'Rocket Man.' Trump has long history of nicknaming his foes," USA Today. Carrite (talk) 04:54, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * And "The running list of President Trump’s nicknames for political rivals," New York Daily News. Carrite (talk) 04:55, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * And "From 'Sleepy Eyes' to 'Rocket Man', the list of nicknames Trump has invented," Singapore Straits Times. Carrite (talk) 04:57, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * And "Presidential name-calling: What 'Little Marco' has to do with 'Rocket Man' (and nuclear weapons)," CNN. Carrite (talk) 05:00, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * And "Did Trump nickname people in school, too?," NBC (video). Carrite (talk) 05:01, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * And "Trump's nicknames for rivals, from 'Rocket Man' to 'Crooked Hillary.'" TownHall.com. Carrite (talk) 05:03, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * And "No, Donald Trump Is Not Good at Nicknames," Slate.com. Carrite (talk) 05:07, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * And "An illustrated guide to the weird names Trump called his rivals," Revelist.com. Carrite (talk) 05:08, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * And "'Crooked Hillary,' 'Lyin' Ted Cruz': How Donald Trump Picks His Disparaging Nicknames for the Other Election Players," People magazine. Carrite (talk) 05:12, 5 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete - let's not feed the ego. Not everything about this famous man is notable. Bearian (talk) 21:52, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete/restructure Yes it's well established that Trump makes lots of crude nicknames, no we do not have to list every instance they were used in a single tweet. Carrite's sources can be incorporated in other ways. Reywas92Talk 22:20, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete not notable. Cobbling a list of nicknames is not encyclopedic. Lightburst (talk) 02:38, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep I guess the tens of thousands of visits to the article say the article or list is relevant. A valid rational for keeping would be WP:LISTN. Lightburst (talk) 22:24, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep Sources as listed above satisfy GNG on Trump's use of nicknames. The article could however use some trimming/cleanup to remove all primary sources (Tweets, etc.), potentially only keeping entries that have independent commentary on them. We could look at this again after that occurs. The article got 297,210 pageviews in the last thirty days so deletion (or even a hard redirect) will cause significant disruption in terms of broken incoming external links etc. Some of the delete votes read as WP:IDONTLIKEIT, well I also wish there was no need for this page. buidhe 02:52, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete Not notable, show's Wikipedia's liberal bias and slanderous lies. 174.53.226.13 (talk) 05:59, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Lol. He has said and tweeted all of these things. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:15, 4 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Strong keep, add inclusion criteria While I have only contempt for what Trump is and does, the list topic is clearly notable. That's been proven over and over again. Just as clear is that the list needs explicit inclusion criteria. As almost all of the entries are slurs directed against living persons, . That should pretty much take care of the criteria proposed. Paradoctor (talk) 02:47, 5 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Heavily trim: This article is getting out of hand -- I'm not inherently opposed to keeping such an article, but most of these examples are terms (not even nicknames, e.g. "chosen one") that Trump only used once, and not in the sense of giving a nickname for himself or others. If this article is confined only to actual nicknames (Sleepy Joe, Crooked Hillary, Crazy Bernie, etc.) that Trump has used more than once, then I can support keeping it. --1990&#39;sguy (talk) 17:06, 5 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Strong keep - this is an unprecedented phenomenon in American history. Mimihitam (talk) 17:19, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete Per WP:INDISCRIMINATE. While the fact that he uses derogatory nicknames might be notable, a precise list of them is not Wikipedia material. This list suggests that the act of giving negative nicknames to people is somehow new or original.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 11:20, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:LISTN.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 19:57, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep, this topic has clearly received enough attention to pass WP:LISTN, though it needs serious trimming. Devonian Wombat (talk) 08:28, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per ZXCVBNM. --Bduke (talk) 08:54, 8 March 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.