Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of non-mouse controllers by Apple, Inc.


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to List of mice by Apple, Inc.. Spartaz Humbug! 12:16, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

List of non-mouse controllers by Apple, Inc.

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

List of non-mouse controllers by Apple, Inc.

There are at least two problems with this list article. First, and most basic, it has no references, and so is not verifiable. Second, it is list cruft. It consists of a list of things that have very little in common except that they are not computer mice. It was moved to draft space by User:Buidhe as not ready for article space, and it was not ready for article space because it had no references. It has then been moved back to article space with the edit summary: "this content has been live for over a decade and is not draft material. if it is deemed inappropriate, AfD it properly". It is inappropriate because it has no references, and because the originator apparently doesn't care about that, or would have added references before moving it back to article space.

If references are provided, the next topic of discussion can be whether the list is useful or is list cruft. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:54, 19 March 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 01:08, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Products-related deletion discussions. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:54, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Computing-related deletion discussions. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:54, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:54, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete there is no indication that RS treat these items as a unified whole, thus failing WP:NLIST. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  18:55, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
 * This was split from list of mice by Apple, Inc. primarily to focus that article on a more concrete subject; the content had lived there for roughly a decade. For some reason, Buidhe decided to move it to draftspace, and template me, as if it were some raw submission. I don't care in the slightest for the content, but given that it's undoubted that these products exist and that the original parent is not currently having its notability questioned, it seems likely that at least the same degree of secondary sourcing exists for the subjects here. But again, my motivation here was cleaning up the parent, and my primary objection here was what I saw as a stealth-deletion of longstanding content by disingenuously treating it like a new user submission. At least a proper AfD will give it closure. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 19:12, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Special:Diff/1067513691 is where the long standing content was erased, by you not by anyone else. This is the classic sweeping-it-under-the-rug pattern for undesired content, including the whole "I don't care" attitude towards the newly created article with the undesired content in it, and the "I was cleaning up." statement.  It happens perennially with "in popular culture" lists, where people claim to "clean up" lists by merely copying them, verbatim, to another page.  Here, it has happened with a list of Human Interface Devices that aren't mice, on an article that for "roughly a decade" (2008–2021) was Apple Mouse, after Apple Pro Mouse had been moved away from that title.  Uncle G (talk) 11:54, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
 * It is unclear why splitting tangential material to its own article (still in articlespace, in broad daylight) is a literal war crime, but subsequently deleting it is not; however, I do not have inclusionist brain. I'll add "stuffing random things into otherwise-notable articles" to the list of the common tricks. Thanks! Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 12:29, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete as unverifiable OR, and an organic failure at LISTN-level.  SN54129  19:36, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep. Useful counterpart to List of mice by Apple, Inc. Apple's contributions to pointing devices are widely cited by scholars—they popularized the mouse in PCs and pioneered the trackpad in portable computing. Failing a keep, Merge contents to List of mice by Apple, Inc. and rename that article to List of pointing devices by Apple Inc.. DigitalIceAge (talk) 23:50, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Talk:List of mice by Apple, Inc. had Apple pointing devices. Uncle G (talk) 11:54, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
 * The underlying problem here is articulated in the 2021 talk page discussion. Until that point Apple Pro Mouse was about the product and Apple Mouse was about all of the mice products, that would have been known simply as an Apple mouse in their days, and similar Human Interface Devices, sold by Apple.  The fact that Human Interface Device existed as an umbrella name for these suggests an obvious idea that was ignored, alongside Apple pointing devices (another obvious idea per pointing device), in the move discussion in favour of Apple mice.  After some "cleanup" that was in reality verbatim cut and paste, here we are.  Uncle G (talk) 11:54, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
 * List of Apple, Inc. peripherals is also available, but seeing as that this discussion has highlighted that one portion of said peripherals is notable and the other isn't, I'm leaning towards the current consensus to keep the notable half. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 12:33, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete I don't see any reliable sources giving importance to such a list. desmay (talk) 19:10, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Merge to List of mice by Apple, Inc. and rename that article. The general concept of Apple pointing devices is notable, and this is appropriate content for an article on that topic. BilledMammal (talk) 04:10, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Notability is not inherited. A merge simply leads back to the previous state where there is half an article of well-referenced material, and another half on a tangential subject referenced to nothing more than editors' own memories. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 10:10, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
 * WP:NNC would apply. BilledMammal (talk) 08:03, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge per BilledMammal. Dhawangupta (talk) 14:57, 1 April 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.