Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of notable former Orthodox Jews


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 01:20, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

List of notable former Orthodox Jews

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This fails notability. Many of the people on the list were never Orthodox since the term Orthodox post-dated them. In addition, the article relies on OR and SYNTH. Sir Joseph (talk) 02:27, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * DeleteSir Joseph (talk) 20:11, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions. Sir Joseph (talk)  02:27, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Sir Joseph failed to read the ongoing discussion on the article talk page before marking for deletion and commenting. His issues have already been discussed and addressed. The page is most certainly notable. Lokshin kugel (talk) 02:45, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Please don't tell me what I failed to read. 1) The article is misnamed. Orthodoxy is from the late-1800's. 2) WP is not a repository of lists. Sir Joseph (talk) 03:20, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. Sir Joseph (talk)  04:18, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions. Sir Joseph (talk)  04:18, 30 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Strong delete 1. Non-notable list. 2. Incorrect usage of term "Orthodox", as SirJoseph correctly mentioned. 3. Unclear what is "Orthodox"? "Ultra-Orthodox", or less than that as well? And if somebody was Ultra-Orthodox and became regular Orthodox? 4. Unclear inclusion criteria. E.g. what if somebody was Orthodox, then wasn't, and then later became Orthodox again? 5. And in general, religiosity is a spectrum and can not be defined narrowly. 6. Also, who are we to judge who is or isn't Orthodox? Debresser (talk) 12:57, 30 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete Fails WP:NOR and WP:V. 69.118.162.150 (talk) 13:47, 30 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete pure listcruft without any objective criteria and basically a POV fork since "notable former Orthodox Jews" is not a neutral description Snuggums (talk / edits) 04:58, 31 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete I can't imagine this becoming a list which is (1) useful, (2) well-defined, and (3) based on sources. Including people like Jesus Christ is just farcical. Zerotalk 08:50, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep The ancient portion of list list is not historically meaningful; the 19th and 20th century portions are. The inclusion of any one individual can be decided on the article talk page. ` DGG ( talk ) 09:54, 31 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment The creator of this misconceived list has stated on the talkpage: "I created this list to help capture the unique experiences of those who left the traditional orthodox/rabbinic Jewish community in the modern era, and to tell the story of the many people who have made that transition." Per What Wikipedia is not he has made the point for deletion as well as any of us. Debresser (talk) 10:11, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment Besides, the list surely doesn't accomplish the stated goal. It's a list of names. It doesn't capture anything. As for the articles the links lead to, take Barbra Streisand, for example. Its sole reference to any connection she had with Orthodox Judaism is a note about her attendance, for an unstated number of years, at an Orthodox school starting at age 5. Nothing in the article conveys anything about any "experience" she might have undergone related to her having gone to an Orthodox school as a child and her not being Orthodox now, let alone any commonality between her and other people on the list. Are we intended to understand that common threads underlie the experiences of Streisand, Baruch Spinoza, and Jesus Christ? I just don't see it. —Largo Plazo (talk) 13:07, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

the above comment was left by User:Lokshin kugel — Lokshin kugel (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Keep--the word orthodox is a useful word, as made clear on the article's talk page. Debresser insists on not including that clarification on the page's article page for some reason, even though that statement would clarify that point. The list is meangingful on many levels. And the insistence that consensus can't be found for who is and isn't a traditionally rabbinic Jew is absurd. Most of Debresser's objections are red herrings.
 * Disclosure Lokshin kugel is the creator of this article, and seems to be personally invested in the subject. Debresser (talk) 01:17, 1 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Disclosure I simply do not like bullies. Debresser's statement lacks assumption of good faith. Lokshin kugel (talk) 01:48, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that most issues brought up on this page are discussed here: WP:BATHWATER. Lokshin kugel (talk) 02:08, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete The lede has no sources to identify the topic as being worthy of notice...vague list criteria made up by Wikipedia editors do not satisfy list wp:notability.  In addition, the lede contradicts the title of the article by bundling an additional category to the list topic.  Blue links do not satisfy WP:V requirements, so after deleting the unsourced entries, there would only be two entries on the list.  I also tried clicking on a couple of the blue links, and neither of the articles identified their topic as "orthodox" (or formerly orthodox).  My limited knowledge of Judaism is that the schisms in the US are unlike those elsewhere in the world.  Unscintillating (talk) 02:06, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. Self-crafted, unsourced, subjective.   JohnInDC (talk) 13:16, 2 January 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.