Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of numbered roads in Kawartha Lakes, Ontario


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Withdrawn. While I still don't think this article should exist, the chances of it being deleted are not very high. At the time I nominated this, I didn't realize that Kawartha Lakes was similar to an independent city in the U.S., which would have drastically influenced my decision to AFD this article. I don't think that we should have lists of roads in counties or cities; however, most editors support lists of county roads (though they do not support lists of major roads in minor cities.) Rschen7754 (T C) 03:07, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

List of numbered roads in Kawartha Lakes, Ontario

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

This is a list of roads in a city. Not even a very large city ("mostly rural"). As far as the stuff at the top, it could be covered in a more general Ontario highways article. I don't think we want "lists of roads in a city " article for every city worldwide. Rschen7754 (T C) 21:54, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Its a single tier municipality thats bigger than the state of New Jersey. Should we delete List of New Jersey state highways?
 * Keep, article is notable and is one of hundreds of its type on wikipedia. While Kawartha Lakes is termed a "city", it is a municipal region that is at the same level as a county or region or district. Nominator is trying to prove a point. I think we do need a list of roads article for every city, so that people can learn about the history of the infrastructure of their region. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  22:09, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I honestly don't believe this article should exist. City != state. Or province as the case would be. --Rschen7754 (T C) 22:00, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Well then also go nominate the following articles because they don't meet your personal criteria for inclusion:
 * List of county roads in Bruce County, Ontario
 * List of county roads in Dufferin County, Ontario
 * List of county roads in Elgin County, Ontario
 * List of county roads in Essex County, Ontario
 * List of county roads in Frontenac County, Ontario
 * List of county roads in Huron County, Ontario
 * List of county roads in Lambton County, Ontario
 * List of county roads in Middlesex County, Ontario
 * List of county roads in Norfolk County, Ontario
 * List of county roads in Perth County, Ontario
 * List of county roads in Prescott and Russell United Counties, Ontario
 * List of county roads in Simcoe County, Ontario
 * List of county roads in Wellington County, Ontario
 * List of regional roads in Halton Region, Ontario
 * List of regional roads in Niagara Region, Ontario
 * List of regional roads in Peel Region, Ontario
 * List of regional roads in York Region, Ontario
 * List of numbered roads in Chatham-Kent, Ontario
 * List of municipal roads in Greater Sudbury
 * List of numbered roads in Ottawa

And thats just Ontario. I'm sorry, but our provinces are large, about the size of 6 or seven states. Our county road system is equivalent to your state road system. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  22:09, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I would, but it's not my duty to clean up Canada (and the horrible state it's in). --Rschen7754 (T C) 22:14, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Good, then stay working on your US articles. I am cleaning up the Canadian articles, and you are being counter-productive to that every step of the way. If you won't nominate those, and you are making a half-finished attempt to nominate this article, then I will close the nomination as incomplete. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  22:17, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * What? You can't do that. --Rschen7754 (T C) 22:19, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:COI by just attempting that. If you're going to be a WP:DICK take it to WT:USRD and WT:CRWP and I and others can leave comment. Arguing with a foul attitude says nothing and will drive problems on yourself. Considering I started the project, I should know this. Mitch 32(The Password is... See here!) 22:22, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually I can, please go read Guide_to_deletion, which states that you must complete all of the steps, followed by the text: "Incomplete nominations may be discarded or ignored". This nomination is incomplete, aside from the fact that it was also made to try and prove a point. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  22:26, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:COI will get you blocked. You are a major part of this AFD, meaning closing it is a conflict of interest for one side and therefore the problem is also going to fall on you. Now actions will be taken if you attempt to close this. Mitch 32(The Password is... See here!) 22:28, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Incomplete means issues like someone didn't create the discussion page, not that someone didn't nominate all similar articles. And I am an administrator, so I know what a complete AFD is. --Rschen7754 (T C) 22:29, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Incomplete also means failing to tag the nominated article. I find it hilarious that you are challenging the notability of an article that has gone through several reviews, is on its second FLC nomination, and has a DYK. Good luck -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  22:37, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * FLs have been deleted before, including several of this type. Also, I fixed the tagging of the article; apparently Twinkle messed up. --Rschen7754 (T C) 22:38, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Status means nothing. I lost an entire FL and Featured topic due to an AFD. Status means NOTHING. Mitch 32(The Password is... See here!) 22:38, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * It means that its been reviewed by many established editors and that the reason for nomination of "I don't think we need this" carries little to no weight. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  22:42, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * So was mine, List of numbered highways in Amenia (CDP), New York. I got an entire featured topic. We cannot bend the rules for you, or that would be bias. Mitch 32(The Password is... See here!) 22:44, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * The very first US county category I pulled up, Category:County_routes_in_New_Jersey, shows over a dozen county route INDIVIDUAL articles (not even a list). There are no rules to be bent as there are no rules in place. There is certainly a consensus to be gained. Besides, I don't think the article itself was even read, just nominated to prove a point. Is the point of wikipedia to selectively pick and choose articles that its nobody editors decide are important enough to them, or is it to amass verifiable information. I'd like to see a policy presented with the nomination, as I will repeat myself in asserting that "I don't think we need this" is not a valid reason for deletion, especially when it the opinion of one editor who doesn't even edit Canadian articles. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  22:49, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * WP:POINT isn't even an official policy. Its a guideline itself. Lots of articles get AFD'd daily. Yours is no different. Now if you could prove some kind of notability, which would also mean redoing the fact, there may be a chance. Right now, you're not helping anything. Mitch 32(The Password is... See here!) 22:52, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * And you are trying to help by deleting an article that is notable? You're trying to delete information for no reason, other than it isn't your personal expectation of wikipedia. I don't have the burden of proving the notability, thats the burden of the nominator to disprove it.
 * Here are some categories, better get to writing this policy that says these aren't notable, because there's a shitload of them. Maybe you'd just be better off coming to the conclusion that articles on physical features are inherently notable.
 * Category:County_routes_in_New_Jersey
 * Category:County_routes_in_New_York
 * Category:County_routes_in_Florida
 * Category:California_County_Routes


 * Should I list the other 46 states? How about articles such as List of County Routes in Ohio County, West Virginia. Are they not notable? Better get out your deletion pen, because you've got a lot of work to do to prove this is not notable. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ <sub style="color:#3AAA3A;">¢  22:59, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Already done. WP:USRD/NT. --Rschen7754 (T C) 23:00, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Considering I live in New Jersey and wrote some of those, and used to live in New York and wrote much of those, you're not putting up a great fight. The only states that don't have CRs are Connecticut, Louisiana, Nevada, Utah and a few others. Mitch 32(The Password is... See here!) 23:05, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, so why is my list of county roads in Kawartha Lakes any different? They aren't called "county roads", but they still fit under its definition and are part of that road system of Ontario. Also, US != Canada. Not to mention that the policy Rschen just posted says "While for the most part, county highways should be in a list article, there may be a select few major county highways that are notable enough to have their own article.", in other words you just proved this lists notability with your own policy, as well as the notability of the 5 or 6 roads that I am making unique articles for. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  <sup style="color:#3AAA3A;">τ <sub style="color:#3AAA3A;">¢  23:07, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * One, your list isn't even a county anymore. Two, this is a Canadian article, and fighting using American systems won't be useful. Ontario is a mess, because its system is too huge. Let's try to keep US systems out of this and take this where it belongs, to the Canada project. Mitch 32(The Password is... See here!) 23:10, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It is a single tier municipality, which is step above a county (similar to Hamilton, Toronto and Ottawa). It just happens to have been (stupidly) named a city, but isn't in the formal sense. You're right, using American systems won't help, but there are no Canadian road editors. Hence, I would like to write some policies and style guidelines for Canadian articles. Yes, many Ontario counties need cleanup, and I will get to them. One step at a time, but this deletion nomination is a step backwards. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  <sup style="color:#3AAA3A;">τ <sub style="color:#3AAA3A;">¢  23:13, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I started the Canadian project, and I edited it once in a while, got some good work done, but the project isn't perfectly active. Now before you accuse us that we're taking a step back, arguing this is causing the same problem on your hand. I wouldn't have a problem userifying the article to a sandbox, but I can't decide that since I've already gotten the COI for arguing for the last hour. Mitch 32(The Password is... See here!) 23:19, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I would have a problem with that though. The article is notable, is one of hundreds of its kind on wikipedia, and provides useful and verifiable information to road enthusiasts. I am happy that you created the project, and I hope that you will help me with improving it rather than trying to delete one of its articles. I'm not here to cause issues, I'm here to improve the encyclopedia.
 * This is all horribly ironic. a few months ago, I nominated the article for the first time for FLC. I was told to withdraw as it wasn't ready, and got into a good argument with several editors about having the history and logs show that I withdrew the article, and not that its nomination was opposed. This grew into a larger argument about whether editors have the right to delete their own unmodified contributions. In the end, I was told I can't, and had several editors say they will watch this article to make sure its content stays put on wikipedia. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  <sup style="color:#3AAA3A;">τ <sub style="color:#3AAA3A;">¢  23:28, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep - it is the standard to list the numbered highways of a jurisdiction that assigns said numbered highways. In the U.S., this means "list of county routes in Foo County". In this case, Kawartha Lakes is a former county that has continued to assign road numbers. --NE2 23:57, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep - per ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ and NE2 --<SPAN STYLE="background-color: black; color: Red">Ultra<SPAN STYLE="color: #0079e0">Magnus</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN STYLE="color:red;background-color:black;">speak</SPAN> 06:26, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep Kawartha Lakes is a county-equivalent and lists of roads in a county are typically accepted. --Polaron | Talk 22:46, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep per above. And perhaps a trout should be applied to Rschen7754 and  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  <sup style="color:#3AAA3A;">τ <sub style="color:#3AAA3A;">¢  for the pissing contest.  freshacconci  talk talk  17:09, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Thryduulf (talk) 16:47, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. Thryduulf (talk) 16:47, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. Thryduulf (talk) 16:47, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep all There is absolutely no reason to delete this. Wikipedia is an almanac, among other things, that listed on one of the policy pages.  This is something that you'd find in an almanac. WP:ALMANAC   D r e a m Focus  17:14, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Can we let this snowball go yet? -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  <sup style="color:#3AAA3A;">τ <sub style="color:#3AAA3A;">¢  19:56, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep all Per above no reason to have this deleted.  Kyle  1278  01:41, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep Per above, lists of county highways, county equivalent highways, and highways in large cities tend to be notable, and this article is no exception. TheCatalyst31 Reaction•Creation 02:50, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.