Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of original (pre-war) Martin D-45s


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Thanks everyone for participating and assuming good faith! Missvain (talk) 18:36, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

List of original (pre-war) Martin D-45s

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Fails WP:LISTN. These aren't Stradivariuses. Clarityfiend (talk) 19:37, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep They are the acoustic guitar world's equivalent of Stradivariuses. Read the Lead: "generally recognized to the most desired, and highly valued, acoustic guitars ever made; in "American Guitars - An Illustrated History", author Tom Wheeler describes them as "among American guitar's irreplaceable treasures"". They are known as the "Holy Grail" to acoustic guitar collectors. Also read here: Vintage Guitar Magazine: Classic Instruments: 1939 Martin D-45. This finishes with the sentence: "If there is any one flat-top steel-string vintage American guitar which can be viewed as a “holy grail” to collectors, the pre-World War II D-45 Martin is it." Just a note, you can buy an "ordinary" acoustic guitar for $450. One of these in top condition will cost you closer to $450,000. There are no production acoustic guitars (vintage, desirable) (other than one-offs with celebrity association) that are worth more.Tony 1212 (talk) 20:48, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Reply. There is a Martin D-45 article for that sort of stuff. It's the listing of each guitar I object to. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:04, 5 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Reply to above statement. Thanks for the response Clarityfiend... the Martin D-45 is a production model today that you can buy off the shelf, and has been made in a number of variants since its re-introduction in 1968. The 91 pre-war ones are a special set in my opinion and that of most other interested parties. Of course this list could be incorporated into the genral D-45 page but my view is that it is rather different in slant and would also make that page a bit long...


 * I refer to the WP notability criteria linked above:
 * "Notability guidelines also apply to the creation of stand-alone lists and tables. Notability of lists (whether titled as 'List of Xs' or 'Xs') is based on the group. One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines."
 * Some quotes from "independent reliable sources" showing that they are typically discussed as a set:
 * https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/20677-pre-war-perfection-the-martin-d-45 : "Today, more than 80 years after Autry’s D-45 was built, these 91 guitars are coveted by players and collectors worldwide."
 * Martin D-45 Master List (2009): "A place to list and help identify the first 91 D-45's"
 * https://www.guitarplayer.com/miscellaneous/introducing-the-d-45-authentic-1942-from-martin : "The new D 45 Authentic is made exactly like Martin made the original 91 pre war D 45 Dreadnoughts. And like the originals, these new D 45 Authentics could well become the next "Holy Grails" of acoustic guitardom. These are magnificent."
 * https://umgf.com/the-91-pre-war-d-45s-t180739.html : The Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum > Guitars > The Vintage Corner > The 91 Pre War D-45s
 * https://shop.gryphonstrings.com/products/1941-steel-string-acoustic-martin-guitar-d45-53459 : "Thanks to Blom's recent neck reset and refret it's highly playable with medium gauge strings and delivers the powerful sound and rich bass response that has made pre-WWII D-45s legendary."
 * This is a selection of web sources to hand. There will be more in print sources (guitar books etc.) as well.


 * Happy to debate further of course. Regards Tony Tony 1212 (talk) 02:07, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 14:12, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 14:12, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Technology-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 14:12, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   09:37, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep - as explained above, these are like Stradivariuses of the guitar world. Not quite literally, but certainly enough to pass WP:LISTN. Adding on, from Fretboard Journal (in the December 2013 issue article Catch of the Day: 1941 Martin D-45) (emphasis added): “As most guitar geeks know, Martin only made 91 prewar D-45s, which makes this instrument a very rare bird, indeed.” This is an assertion in a notable publication that the exact number of prewar D-45s is well known among guitar enthusiasts! This is a rare and well known historical set of acoustic instruments, this page list certainly has encyclopedic value as it details that set. Shelbystripes (talk) 05:20, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Totally concur with User:Shelbystripes. Here is another quote, this time from a respected reference book: "History of the American Guitar: 1833 to the Present Day" by Tony Bacon (ISBN 1476856389, 9781476856384): "Only 91 pre-war D-45s were made, and in the view of many players and collectors they are among the highest quality, best sounding guitars ever made. With so few in existence and with such wide knowledge of their almost magical quality, these superb, rare, and inevitably expensive instruments appear to follow the rules of supply and demand perfectly." Regards Tony 1212 (talk) 05:44, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 16:40, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep There are plenty of reliable sources for this very rare and valuable instrument. It is sought after by collectors. Per WP:LISTN we keep list like this.Wm335td (talk) 20:00, 20 January 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.